I think we're stuck with Brown, can't see us releasing him 12 months in after paying a significant fee, and doubt we have enough in the pot to splash out on another half

Now we have Hiku signed, presumably that's the centre position covered for 2018.
Other targets:

Naiquama to come in on the right wing on Gidleys salary
Big Prop to replace Sims
1 or 2 x Second rower to replace Westwood & Savelio

Evans, Penny, Dwyer, & Pomeroy all leaving to be replaced by a Back up hooker and ANO to cover half back when Brown is injured / gets so terrible TS is forced to sit him out. Tony Gigot maybe a decent shout? Probably more naturally a centre but could fit in in the halves or at full back and put pressure on Atkins and Hiku to perform?

Both Kings, Julien, Wilde, Johnson, Livett, Ryan Jones to stay of the out of contract players, as I cant see them taking much cap space and we need players for back up / reserves etc

Wrong attitude, surely? Doesn't that imply that the current players were playing so well that they deserved to keep their places?

Putting them in now or earlier this season wouldn't really help them, young players need to be playing alongside quality experienced players who are in form ! What would they ha e learnt ? How to accept mediocrity? that it's not about winning but how we train ?

If we had played well but finished in the top 8 but not able to get top 4 then yes there would have been a reason to play some of the younger players !

I don't get this problem with "trained well". Doesn't a coach have to take into account how a player trains? If not how would a new player ever get into a team? it does seem that whatever TS says at the moment certain people will ridicule him. But the constant bitching about his comments smacks of playground bullies who identify a deemed weakness and constantly harp on about it, as though repetition makes it funnier rather than wearisome.

We won't make the top eight
Wakey and the pies away who are pushing to finish in the top 4 and the top eight
It ain't going to happen.

It's because he treats our match day performance outcome like it's an act of God, out of anybody's hands, rather than as a result of the coaching methods and team preparation. The latter he always vindicates with "but we trained well". But this cannot be the case as to train well must infer to have prepared well for the desired result, and our desired results have been terrible, thus bringing the preparation into question to us fans, but never seemingly to him.

If they as TS states are regularly training well can we assume that they are in peak form mentally and physically through the week?

If so what happens on game day?

Due to the consistency stated by TS they surely cannot lose that much metal and physical form and then gain it back for the next set of training sessions?

I am a believer of the best team every week playing hard and fast, like us in 2011. Does anyone think like me that perhaps the constant shuffling of the past 2-3 years to try and manipulate league the finishing position has had an affect on the team this year?

Just trying to find a "why" to this for my own sanity!

Hopefully we can scrape 8th and breathe a sigh of relief and let the young fellas prove to the club and supporters that they are worth a shot.

If we finish in 8th sport with no chance of getting in the top 4 that's the perfect opportunity to 'blood youngsters'.

Its no coincidence that when the chips have been down over the last few years and we've had no choice to put the kids in we've looked arguably at our most deadly.

Why? because they're academy players. They know the clubs history. They're keen and eager and play for each other the badge. As opposed to a quick fix buys like Brown who plays for his own personal agenda and cash.

Well,Shaun Wane manages to get by with blooding youngsters & has found a way to manage injuries to his senior players so that they can "recover" enough to play in the games that matter & when a bit of nouse is needed. As a result, when his big boys eventually retire he will have a team of fully fledged professionals to fall back on. And he has the luxury of being able to offload his below par players to clubs like ours.

If we make 8th we'll be playing dead rubbers.
So I agree. Play all the youngsters.

Why oh why are people saying if we make the 8 - It's not happening, the Hudds v Pies draw last week extinguished any lingering hope - Wigan have Widnes at home and a dreadful catalans team away - So that would mean us winning all 4 including pies away

Huddersfield have Leigh and Widnes at home

Wigan have not won a Super League game since 23rd April . That is 8 games. If Widnes win on Sunday & we win tomorrow it should be an interesting run in. So it is still possible to make the top 8

Here’s the remaining last five matches in phase one for each of the clubs in the red zone Leigh Centurions (H), Wigan Warriors (H), St Helens (A), Castleford Tigers (H).

Huddersfield Giants Salford (A)Widnes Vikings (H), Leigh Centurions (H), Hull FC (A).

Leigh Centurions Catalans Dragons (A), Warrington Wolves (A), Huddersfield Giants (A), Salford Red Devils (H).

Warrington Wolves Wakefield Trinity (A), Leigh Centurions (H), Wigan Warriors (A), Widnes Vikings (H).


Widnes Vikings Wigan Warriors (A), Huddersfield Giants (A), Wakefield Trinity (H), Warrington Wolves (A).

Wigan Warriors Widnes Vikings (H), Catalans Dragons (A), Warrington Wolves (H), Leeds Rhinos (H).

We have to win 2 more than Huddersfield, they have:
Salford A
Widnes H
Leigh H
Hull FC A

We Have:
Wakey A
Leigh H
Wigan A
Widnes H

It's improbable but not impossible, if Huddersfield won at Salford this week or we lose at Wakey though, we're destined for the middle 8's

The Wigan Hudds draw didn't really affect much. Due to points difference we still had to win two more games than them regardless. The killer for us was losing at Huddersfield, and by such a margin.