I'm not wrong though.

No matter what positives you come up with. There are always negatives with Gleeson.
You personally felt he deserved better. A Lot of the south stand didn't. It is differing opinion.I personally didn't shout anything about him at the game, but I understood why people did and I wouldn't keep bringing it up.

I can appreciate people have been wrong about Penny and people can be wrong about Clarke. There is a debate there (more the Penny one) but Gleeson is a proven bad boy and a waster. Betting scandal at Sts, party animal at Wire, whatever he did Wigan ( ) he is wasting people's time.

Ultimately, he was unenthusiastic and apparently unprofessional at the club. He left to be at a better team (his boyhood team) our bitter rivals-ish and he won something with them. Which is more than he did for us.

I fully understand why people shouted at him. Even if it was just to put him off his game or we were losing and they needed someone to take it out on. You reap what you sow and he has sown some very bad seeds.

Also, I feel we are a better team without him.

Gleeson served a purpose, he helped to really launch the Moran era, he was the signing that really kick started it all and started to make other fans take notice and question how we stayed under the cap. On the pitch he was good for us, in the team he was in which clearly wasn't the most professional of outfits he was an asset. When TS came, he clearly asked for the players to give more to the cause, to almost devote themselves and he didn't want to do that.

To me, it has always looked like a hobby that he gets well paid for to him. He could have been the centre that defined this generation, a fixture for his country and a genuine 'World Class' player, as it is, he's in danger of being remembered for his off field antics as oppose to what he's achieved on it. For me, he's one of a few in the last decade who's shone against Australia and he wouldn't have looked out of place in their side.

Which makes his thick-headedness all the sadder

Not sure about Foz sal, I have never had a beef with him. Harris though.....

I think a lot of people simply view Gleeson as a filthy little scrote and it's always hard to cheer for those types when they arent your own...

The greetings given to Mathers by everyone of his former team mates after the game were absolutely heartwarming and were everything that is good about Rugby League.

I'll take that as an indication of Mathers' popularity over the idea that we must be jealous of Gleeson

Then why did we never hear all this criticism of Gleeson when he was here?

Even as late as 2008 when he was probably England's best player in the World Cup, and there were rumours on here about him being linked with the NRL, the talk on here was that we didn't want to see him go. I actually reckon if he had signed for Canterbury Bulldogs in 2009 there wouldn't have been all of this hate for him, it is because he signed for Wigan that our fans have got this beef with him and suddenly decided that he had been a problem for 5 years.

In fact when he was here, there was more hating on Fa'afili than Gleeson. Fa'afili used to score try after try for Warrington, he was as prolific as anyone we've had in SL, but still he was always criticised by a section of our supporters and when his prolific record was brought up they just said "yeah but anybody playing outside Gleeson will score loads of tries".

The attitudes on here also reflect baiting from other teams fans. We were all happy to tell the Saints fans they were wrong for telling us "Gleeson never passes to his winger" when he joined us.

What is your point? No one is denying he had talent. (Talk bout him have the potential to be a once in a generation player, going to Australia)

The point is when he was with us. He was a Wire. I actually sort of buy into the motto (even if it was just a marketing ploy). The bottom line is, though, he isn't worthy of respect from anyone after the mistakes he's made. Even Sean Long didn't keep making mistakes. He had the rugby ability to the best and he threw it away for drink, gambling and 'other things'.

You could be right. There may be something in the truth that people hate him for going to Wigan and being successful. That can sting. I'm sure a lot has been said comparing Mather's 2 CC medals to Gleeson's 1 GF ring.

I personally see him as nothing really. Why I didn't shout at him. Why I don't really care what he does unless it is something to do with gangs and money. He did a service to the club and I am sure people are grateful but at the end of the day I don't feel the respect I feel for Monas and Briers. Or even Moz and Carvell. Or even Joey Johns. Or even Kevin Sinfield or Keith senior, Or EVEN K. Cunnigham or Paddy O'loughlin. Or even a certain extent Harris for Gleeson.

He was full of potential and wasted it. Winning what he won at sts and Wigan was good but he was so much better. Alternatively it may be that he won things with Wigan and Sts and never won us anything. He certainly looked disinterested while he was here. You have to question his heart. I can see why people think so little of him to shout at him.

You have to weigh up to positives and the negatives.
Gleeson was a good centre for us
and at times shown he was happy here

But there are so many areas where he went wrong.

Billy Slater wouldn't have made much difference to Cas on friday night, their backs were playing behind a beaten pack, it was virtually wave after wave of attack for the full 80 mins from our attack.

Richie Mathers is obviously very popular with our players and the majority of fans, his enthusiasm and encouragement from the back certainly helped us on the road to where we are now. His performance at wembley would have won the Lance Todd trophy in most years, yes he makes a few mistakes but what fullback doesn't ?

A fullback is basically the last line of defence and their mistakes will be highlighted a lot more than other players mistakes, if we had already had a prolific kicker at the club when it came round to Richie Mathers talking about a new contract them i'm sure he'd have been offered a better deal to stay. We needed a prolific kicker and it didn't work out well for Richie Mathers that Brett Hodgson was also a fullback.

For the wages that he will have been on he was a decent player, on his day he was a superb last line of defence but you take the rough with the smooth with Richie as a mistake wasn't far away either, i'd say that the very good last line of defence out weighed the mistakes in his time here.

Martin Gleeson wasn't 100% commited at the club, Mathers was, it's really as simple as that.

I dont like players that get involved in betting scams

But you all just got this stuff about Gleeson having 'attitude' problems and 'not being committed' from stories on the internet. He did perform pretty well for us during his time here. Same with Bridge....ask any Bradford fan, they will tell you he has a 'bad attitude'. Because they read it on the internet.

Gleeson just looked miserable and Richie looked like an ADHD lottery winner on gas and air on a date with a super model on a promise.

It helped win over the fans

It wasn't 'stuff from the internet though', was it? I remember Smith saying, he wasn't commited and that nobody who isn't 100% commited to Warrington can go (or as good as saying it).

Mathers --- Wembley 2010 -- 3 try savings tackles --- nuff said

Richie Mathers was a work horse, all fans love a work horse! He was Mr Enthusiastic and was the first person to gee the team up when heads started to drop!!

Gleeson well I personally dislike him because he is getting to live my dream! Playing proffesional rugby league. Not for one miute have I seen him look bothered on a rugby pitch for years! Like it has been said the lad had soooo much talent it was untrue (could of been one of the greats) instead he neglected that and wee'd it all up the wall!