From what i saw he just never really got the chance again, but before that he was playing really well. Shame really he just disappeared like Ben Harrison. Who was seemingly just quietly shoced out the club. It was very bizzarre.

He got that awful hamstring rip, when he got his leg pulled out in a tackle v saints, in 2015, I think it took forever and ever to heal, and eventually we let him go, he went to London and then maybe toulouse, ive lost track.

He was a real bright spark at the start of 2015, and as I've mentioned on here when its bee complained about, smith and the club were hoping he would be fit for 2016, he wasn't and thats why cox and Bailey were brought in as cheap reserves to fill a gap for him and also dodds.

The problem with this is if we had a season where we played mostly young players and finished 10th, the fans would still say the same thing - Price is taking us nowhere, get rid of Price, Briers, KF, we need a clear out. Look how Price got panned for playing Ashton at fullback in the cup semi against Salford - which was a good example of showing faith in youth.

It's easy to say that you want to see young players given a chance, but after a few losses they get panned. Keanan Brand was written off after one game. Remember when Steve Anderson was here and guys like Steve Maden, Dave Alstead, Jon Hill were given a shot in the first team. They got slagged off along with everyone else when we were losing.

The point about Wigan having faith in their production line isn’t quite clear cut. I suspect they produce far more SL players than any other team, but they let an awful lot go. In recent times we have signed 2 that became internationals in K Brown and J Hughes as examples. Any we have let go have hardly come back to bite us.

I fear that a golden opportunity, for this particular ship to sail, has been totally missed during the 2020 season.

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They don't half let an awful lot go, but they still produce and integrate a heck of a lot into their first team. I don't think Jack Hughes or Kev Brown have come back to bite Wigan on their arris, they've both moved on to teams that haven't won a grand final. I suspect the pies aren't angry because Mr Hughes isn't in their team.

I think it's a culture thing, we're chasing that first GF and will do it by hook or by crook. Saints, Wigan etc have the luxury of having that in the bag, so can address their production line a bit more, give more youngsters more chances in big games, almost a case of "we didn't win it this year, we probably will next year" vs our "we've GOT to win it soon".

Not knocking any of their efforts for us, but they were not what I'd consider international quality while in the P&B. Having said that, we need to strive to produce our own, and it won't happen unless there is adequate first team game time.

Disagree...Wigan allowed fan widespread chat to develop about a season of transition following Shaun Wane’s ousting and Lammie taking over. In turn, Lammie got an extension. They blooded loads of youngsters. I’d have accepted a forfeit season, had we done the same.
Our target was always to set up a GF win. We allowed only 2 games in the regulation season for it.

Come on Rubber. You know why they blooded loads of youngsters ... they had lots of injuries.
I'd give our fans one game before starting to moan. I have never heard the phrase on here ... "I know he's not so good but we will play him vs. Wigan cos he's the future & will get better". Sally is dead right.

We HAVE to cut the overseas quota to three or four. For all our success in bringing our academy players through both Wigan and Saints will have about five overseas players next season in our squads next season. Seven which is the current limit is ridiculous.

My beef is that i am sure we could get better overall performances from our youngsters than most of the imports we have signed recently so we either have to promote from within or sort out our scouting system. Game wide though ,If we have no reserve or academy games how
are the lads who want to play RL going to get game time & how long before those & future hopefuls give up altogether on their aims of playing for possibly their favourite clubs. Youth needs to be the life blood of Rugby League to continue the production of home grown players. In these viral times with money being squeezed within the game we don't actually know when youth systems as we know them will be back & all that time ,without alternatives, the game could haemorrhage home grown talent to the detriment of its long term future. We know which way most of the silverware goes in our game anyway so perhaps a Rugby League initiative to encourage the playing of young hopefuls in all SL teams could be a shot in the arm for the game in general especially if they could attract Government attention & possibly funding for doing so. Maybe even silverware or monetary grants could be given to clubs best promoting their youth into top tier rugby.

I've always advocated six substitutions (max) form an eight man bench, no interchanges.. The stipulation should be that at least four of those players should have come through your academy and preferably be aged 23 or under.

The difference between Wigan/Leeds/Saints and us, is that their Academies produce top talent. Ours doesn't.

So this idea that all we need to do is accept one 'reset season', where we throw in a load of our young players in 2021, and then by 2022 they will be Grand Final winners, is delusional.

What evidence do we have that we have a golden generation of talent, who are better than the Wigan and Saints youngsters, and are going to overtake them?

There's a naive idea on here that all you need to do is give young players games in the first team and they magically improve into superstars. We've given tons of young players more chances in the first team than they would have ever got at Wigan, Leeds or Saints. Patton, George King, Rhys Evans, Kevin Penny, got about 100 games. Livett, Blythe, G O'B, Ormsby, Pickersgill, Laithwaite, Mitchell, McCarthy, all got around 50.

Now when you get to this point in the argument, some fans will get defensive. Some of those Iisted were OK SL players. Toby King, Joe Philbin, have also done OK. I agree they have done OK. But I thought the whole anger amongst Wire fans was that we're tired of doing "OK". Getting to the playoffs and getting knocked out, getting to the odd Grand Final. Would Saints fans, Leeds fans, Wigan fans tolerate this?

If we're really honest and brutal, even the gems of our Academy production over the last two decades: Paul Wood, Riley, Cooper, pre-injury Currie, and now King and Philbin, would have at best been steady first teamers, more likely fringe players, in those Grand Final-winning Saints, Leeds or Wigan teams. They have been long-term fixtures in the sides that have frustrated us with their lack of GF wins.

If we're going to "go with youth" and simultaneously aim to win the Grand Final rather than just pussyfoot around the playoffs, then that youth needs to be of the calibre of: Graham, Roby, Sinfield, Burrow, O'Loughlin, Tomkins. If your next generation are just another set of Coopers, Philbins and Kings, they won't overtake Saints, Wigan and Leeds.

Otherwise all that happens is we scale ourselves down to a team that mid or lower table, with a few players that hold their own in SL trying to carry the ones that don't, and are easy pickings for the top teams.

The only way we're going to get a Grand Final win in the next 5 years, is to import in some serious talent (whether from the NRL or from other SL clubs) and have a seriously good coach. Hopefully we can supplement it with some decent players from our Academy and as a longer term project I'd hope we could kick our Academy into the same shape that the top clubs is.

But there is no GF win coming if you just throw out what comes out of our Academy now and hope that some will magically turn in to better than what the top teams have. It's just a delusion.

Let's be honest though ,there are realistically 3 or 4 teams in with a shout of winning whatever silverware is on offer, pretty much similar to the Football League who have even more clubs with no chance of winning anything.
Players coming over from Down under are not even A listers, they are coming because the can't play in their own leagues or want a lucrative pension top up. Maybe we won't win anything but perhaps the exuberance of youth would give us something exciting to watch from the stands.

It doesn't have to be either/or - there is a compromise whereby you can bring in the [iright[/i type of overseas player and still allow your best youngsters to flourish.

Saints have built a team of reliable, settled, steady overseas players (Coote, Taia, Naguima), home grown buys (Walmsley, Amor) and youngsters. No-one is screaming for Coote to be replaced by AN Other youngster, because he is performing at the top of his game.

The problem we have is that players who are clearly NOT performing at anywhere near a level befitting their wage and experience STILL get in ahead of upcoming talent.