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its very 'against the spirit of the cap'

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Quote: Alffi_7 "As I mentioned above, I think they have taken advantage of the fact that they have reduced salaries by 30+%, this has given them space on the salary cap as this has stayed static at £2.1m + Exemptions. I have some sympathy with Toronto and their salary cap situation, but this doesn't sit to well with me.'"

I don't have sympathy to be honest, they've chosen to pay over the odds for players. I get what mcdermott dmsays witb attracting players etc but there's plenty of people who would play for them without demanding higher wages just because they're abroad.

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Quote: Fantastic Mr Catpiss "its very 'against the spirit of the cap''"

Pies have been doing that since it’s inception.

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Quote: Or thane "I don't have sympathy to be honest, they've chosen to pay over the odds for players. I get what mcdermott dmsays witb attracting players etc but there's plenty of people who would play for them without demanding higher wages just because they're abroad.'"


Paying more to attract players as a growing club is nothing new, we went through the same thing when we were bringing the likes of Morley, King, Monaghan to the club, I'm sure we would have needed to pay more for the same players if they were being targeted by Leeds, Wigan or Saints. Salford did similar when they had Koucash and they were trying to buy high quality players from a perceived lower club position. It's magnified for Toronto as they have been trying to move up three divisions in 3/4 years, so the contracts they were handing out in years 1 & 2 are probably inflated as they were trying to attract SL players to a Championship one / Championship team - a tricky situation to handle. That's not really where my sympathy comes from with Toronto though, it was their choice to grow fast. As far as I know their accommodation in Toronto is not provided for them, they have to pay for it themselves, similarly and obviously they have to maintain a house in the UK, so all that is counted in the salary cap.

Also try as they might they are never going to get the £100k salary dispensation for home grown players, for at least another 10-20 years as they develop player pathways. There should be a benefit to developing your own players, so I agree with it in principle - just maybe Toronto should be given £100k allowance to the salary cap in years 1 - 5 then maybe reducing on a sliding scale as they progress. That way they are not penalised by being an expansion club and have the incentive to develop their own players.

Personally I would have gone to a franchise model as soon as Toronto came in, with the plan to expand to 14 teams with Toulouse and London - but that's another subject.

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Quote: Alffi_7 "Paying more to attract players as a growing club is nothing new, we went through the same thing when we were bringing the likes of Morley, King, Monaghan to the club, I'm sure we would have needed to pay more for the same players if they were being targeted by Leeds, Wigan or Saints. Salford did similar when they had Koucash and they were trying to buy high quality players from a perceived lower club position. It's magnified for Toronto as they have been trying to move up three divisions in 3/4 years, so the contracts they were handing out in years 1 & 2 are probably inflated as they were trying to attract SL players to a Championship one / Championship team - a tricky situation to handle. That's not really where my sympathy comes from with Toronto though, it was their choice to grow fast. As far as I know their accommodation in Toronto is not provided for them, they have to pay for it themselves, similarly and obviously they have to maintain a house in the UK, so all that is counted in the salary cap.

Also try as they might they are never going to get the £100k salary dispensation for home grown players, for at least another 10-20 years as they develop player pathways. There should be a benefit to developing your own players, so I agree with it in principle - just maybe Toronto should be given £100k allowance to the salary cap in years 1 - 5 then maybe reducing on a sliding scale as they progress. That way they are not penalised by being an expansion club and have the incentive to develop their own players.

Personally I would have gone to a franchise model as soon as Toronto came in, with the plan to expand to 14 teams with Toulouse and London - but that's another subject.'"


mm, not sure i buy that, here's the squad for the first season



1 Samoa Quentin Laulu-Togaga'e Fullback
2 England Jonathan Pownall Wing
3 England Greg Worthington Centre
4 England Craig Hall Centre
5 Republic of Ireland Liam Kay Wing
6 Australia Blake Wallace Stand-off
7 Canada Rhys Jacks Scrum-half
8 Tonga Fuifui Moimoi Prop
9 Republic of Ireland Bob Beswick Hooker
10 Wales Daniel Fleming Prop
11 England Andrew Dixon Second-row 8
12 England James Laithwaite Second-row
13 England Jack Bussey Loose forward
14 England Gary Wheeler Stand-off
15 United States Ryan Burroughs Wing
16 England Shaun Pick Second-row
17 England Richard Whiting Second-row
19 England Steve Crossley Prop
20 United States Tom Dempsey Prop
21 England Adam Sidlow Prop
23 England Toby Everett Prop
24 Wales Sean Penkywicz Hooker 4
25 England Ryan Bailey Prop
26 United States Joe Eichner Second-row
27 Scotland Ryan Brierley Scrum-half
28 Canada Quinn Ngawati
29 Wales Jacob Emmitt

not a lot of SL signings in there, laithwaite and wheeler we know of, bailey? craig hall was at wakey, it looks like they've overpaid to wrestle a lot of ex leigh players away to come play for rowley. The rest are odds and sods from around the championship.

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here's their squad this year

Who do we think is overpaid now?

1 England Gareth O'Brien - FB, SH, SO
2 Scotland Matty Russell - FB, WG
3 New Zealand Chase Stanley - CE, SO, WG - MARQUEE
4 Samoa Ricky Leutele - CE -MARQUEE
5 Ireland Liam Kay - WG
6 England Joe Mellor - SO, SH
7 Australia Josh McCrone (c) - HB, HK
8 England Adam Sidlow - PR, SR
9 England Andy Ackers - HK
10 Ireland Anthony Mullally - PR
11 England Andrew Dixon - LF, SR
12 New Zealand Bodene Thompson - CE, SR
13 England Jon Wilkin (vc) - LF, SH, SO, SR
14 Australia Darcy Lussick - PR
15 France Gadwin Springer - PR
16 England Tom Olbison - SR
17 Australia Blake Wallace - SH, SO
18 England Brad Singleton - PR
19 England Gary Wheeler - CE, SO
20 Scotland James Cunningham - HK, SH
21 New Zealand Sonny Bill Williams - CE, SR -FAT STACKS $$$
22 England Greg Worthington - CE
23 France Hakim miloudi

tony gigot, trialist
watkins, incoming.

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Quote: Fantastic Mr Catpiss "here's their squad this year

Who do we think is overpaid now?

1 England Gareth O'Brien - FB, SH, SO
2 Scotland Matty Russell - FB, WG
3 New Zealand Chase Stanley - CE, SO, WG - MARQUEE
4 Samoa Ricky Leutele - CE -MARQUEE
5 Ireland Liam Kay - WG
6 England Joe Mellor - SO, SH
7 Australia Josh McCrone (c) - HB, HK
8 England Adam Sidlow - PR, SR
9 England Andy Ackers - HK
10 Ireland Anthony Mullally - PR
11 England Andrew Dixon - LF, SR
12 New Zealand Bodene Thompson - CE, SR
13 England Jon Wilkin (vc) - LF, SH, SO, SR
14 Australia Darcy Lussick - PR
15 France Gadwin Springer - PR
16 England Tom Olbison - SR
17 Australia Blake Wallace - SH, SO
18 England Brad Singleton - PR
19 England Gary Wheeler - CE, SO
20 Scotland James Cunningham - HK, SH
21 New Zealand Sonny Bill Williams - CE, SR -FAT STACKS $$$
22 England Greg Worthington - CE
23 France Hakim miloudi

tony gigot, trialist
watkins, incoming.'"


The likes of Gaz O'Brien, Matty Russell, Chase Stanley. Joe Mellor, Darcy Lussick (Was marquee before SBW came along so must be on £175k+), Jon Wilkin, Brad Singleton Gary Wheeler (Now gone?) will all be overpaid in terms of what they could expect from other SL sides, based purely on the fact they were signed to a Championship club who aspired to immediate promotion in to SL.

It will take them 2 to 3 years to manage those players out / move to lower contracts more deserving of their quality, but that is a result having wanting to grow so quickly. The main issue I have with Toronto and salary cap is the £100k exemption they cannot apply for and the costs of housing players in Toronto - I don't think that should be included in the Cap.

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The tantalising prospect of Wheeler returning to Saints as the prodigal seems to have receded, a further unfortunate consequence of Covid

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The latest on Gelling's Instagram stories show him working as a roofer on Aus/New Zealand. Not quite the isolation training you'd expect from a player expected to be back once Super League returns.

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It was reported in the Warrington Guardian yesterday.

The club suspended him whilst it did its own internal investigation then reinstated him. I doubt that they would see a reason to suspend him again pending trail since he has pleaded not guilty. As to what happens next month when it comes to trial we shall have to wait and see. I’m no expert, and I haven’t seen the evidence, but should it be a guilty verdict / non-custodial sentence then I’d bet that he sees out the season then is on his way.

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Quote: St Helens Wolf "It was reported in the Warrington Guardian yesterday.

The club suspended him whilst it did its own internal investigation then reinstated him. I doubt that they would see a reason to suspend him again pending trail since he has pleaded not guilty. As to what happens next month when it comes to trial we shall have to wait and see. I’m no expert, and I haven’t seen the evidence, but should it be a guilty verdict / non-custodial sentence then I’d bet that he sees out the season then is on his way.'"

Next month is just for him to enter his plea in Crown Court, the trial will be a loooooong way off.

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Hears my take. Suspend him on full pay until the outcome.
I’d rather see another centre as opposed to gamble on playing Gelling, to find he has a court date just prior to a final and have to replace him last minute.

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Quote: rubber duckie "Hears my take. Suspend him on full pay until the outcome.
I’d rather see another centre as opposed to gamble on playing Gelling, to find he has a court date just prior to a final and have to replace him last minute.'"

I would expect any trial date to be at least 12 months away.

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Without reference to any case in particular...
I would imagine the CPS would find a charge difficult to to stick if the accused and accuser refuse to assist with enquires.

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