I think the term "light weight" might be pushing it a bit.
Cooper, Clark, Hill, Philbin, BMM, Hughes & Currie ... all pretty recent internationals.
They were more than a handful most of the time last year.
* Mind you I'd still like another prop

There's a point....we wouldn'tnt have pages of speculation talking points if they did.

They are lightweight. They're not a pack thats going to steam roll over the opposition and knock 10 shade out of them coming the other way. We have a pack that is athletic and mobile. rather than raw power and trying to play off a 'platrorm' we should be moving our pack from side to side around the park, spereading the opposition defence. We need to be plying off of multiple runners and short balls and offloads.

thats where the type of players we've signed come into their own. its that type of play that encourages 'eyes up' running and playing what you see in front of you.

Widdop doesnt neccesarily need to be 100% fit. I would like to hope he was signed to give the team direction on the pitch. It's Austin, Ratch and Clark playing off off Widdops guidence that need to be 100% fit.

Didn't our "lightweight" pack win the Challenge Cup for us?
Have you already forgotten about their performance in the QF, SF & Final?

It's the ability to do it consistently. For every game such as the QF, SF an Final we can list games such as ..


Losing 36-12 at Salford.
Losing 22-6 at Salford.
Losing 12-14 at home to Castleford
Losing 20-6 at Wigan
Losing 12-30 at home to Saints
Losing 30-10 at Catalans
Losing 27-18 at Castleford
Losing 12-22 at home to Castleford

Well listed ... but a bit repetitive & obvious.
Consistency is what every club strives for. We were the third most consistent club last year (I put us above Salford due to our cup run). We mustn't be all doom & gloom about the club we support.

It's the unfortunate truth that we were not good enough in the league.

Fans (like me) are desperate for success where it counts. It's so disillusioning when we can see we are set up to fail again before the season even starts and it's been like that for a while. Either a coach who had run his course, or an unbalanced squad, or poor tactics. It's not enough for me to say we were the 3rd most consistent club because we were not. SL 2019 will report we finished 5th. Behind Castleford and Salford. That is the blunt truth. 5th. And that is simply not good enough for a full cap side, with a marquee signing and superb facilities and support base.

How long has it been since we had genuine belief we could win the league?

Yes. one off games. were they able to do it in the league when it mattered? No. Beacuse our pack could not consistently bash it up every week.

Listen, you make it sound as though I'm moaning about having a lightweight pack. I'm not. I'm moaning about how our lightweight pack is trying to play like a heavyweight pack. That heavyweight style of play does not suit our type of forwards and doesn't suit our halves.

Theres nothing wrong with having a lightweight, athlectic and mobile pack as long as you play them in a mobile and athletis way. Thats how we played first half of the season and it showed and worked. Heavyweight style at the back end of the season proved we cant play that way and see results.

We all saw it but Price couldn't. Hopefully theis season we stick to what we're good at. Quick direct play both sides of the ruck, forwards running lead lines with tip-ons/offloads and halves running out the back and playing off it.

In Super League we finished 4th.
I can see you are never really going to be happy.
Relax and enjoy.

I'm reasonably happy in everyday life but the Wire do cause me a lot of frustration it's true. I wish I didn't care, honestly.

PS - In my understanding the league position is determined after the playoffs ergo Leeds were crowned winners whilst finishing 5th at the end of the regular rounds but winning the GF. We finished 5th and will receive prize money for 5th.

I'm not particularly too bothered about SL.
So long as we keep going Wembley I'm satisfied....I like the day in the sun.

Well said,sir !

The fact we are arguing about whether we were technically 5th or 4th last year says everything about where we are.

We're a club that will be competing for 4th/5th place, I think we have above 50% chance of making the playoffs and we have a chance of competing for the Challenge Cup too.

This state of affairs will satisfy some supporters like Smiffy, others like me and Wires71 find it frustrating.

It's frustrating because of the context and recent history. If you went back twenty years (how time flies) to when Deakin was here, and we'd just announced the signings of Langer, Nikau and Gee, there was a really exciting buzz about the club. As the 2000 season approached, the season previews in the media were giving us a similar kind of prediction to what I just said above for where we are now....competing for a playoff spot and chance of winning the Challenge Cup. I remember at the time thinking that was an incredibly exciting prospect. In the end we finished 6th and made the CC semi so it didn't turn out as well as we hoped.

But 20 years on, that kind of expectation just isn't exciting any more. In the past ten years we've won four Challenge Cups, made four Grand Finals and won two League Leaders Shields. So the only thing left to be really excited about is the quest to win a Grand Final.

If we were moving in a direction that felt like we were more likely to win a Grand Final than we were in the past that would be exciting. The problem at the moment is it feels like we are just standing still or sliding backwards. You could see through the second half of last season that there was no way we were going to end up winning the Grand Final. We haven't looked like we have addressed our weaknesses in the off-season recruitment so it just feels like another year of being in the close-but-not-ready-yet group of clubs. That's why it isn't exciting.

And thats the problem in a nutshell.

The displays (challenge cup apart) were very poor. Players looked disinterested... Coach looked bemused and trotted out the same rhetoric. The rugby on display was awful..... Like REALLY bad to watch... We were tactically inept and devoid of effort.... the worst 2 things a team can have.

I dont think there is a single fan looking at next season with any optimism.... Most are expecting a hard opening with performances like the back end of the season, followed by outrage and a sacking.

Flaming hell Sally ... I get frustrated too ... but I don't moan for ever and ever. I have been involved in rugby for a long time and I have think seeing the negative virtually all the time is not good. This forum is a bit of a joke. Same old negs going on and on and on ... we've heard it and we understand your feelings.