Incidentally, aren't Toronto averaging better core home support than several SL clubs, including Leigh, even allowing for zero travelling support and very few competitve fixtures?

What a shame. Did your club vote for the new structure. Where's your facts on the game will suffer? If they do go down, what's to say it won't make their game stronger! After all the Championship is looking more exciting than SL for next season.

Loosing Catalans out of SL would be devastating for the game. Losing Leigh would be bad. but wouldn't have that much of an effect. SL and Rugby league in general HAS to have a strong presence and strong international French side.

If we can get Toronto in SL it wont be long till north America jumps on board. We're a small sport, we need footholds in other nations. Catalans are a massive foothold.

Yes he did, and in my opinion he is not a world beater. Marc Sneyd has been more influential for Hull this season.

He's on the shortlist for Man of Steel.

I understand their massive strategic importance to the sport, but this is sport, not Game Of Thrones, where we must keep an alliance with the French, and marry Richie Myler off to Remi Casty to keep a strategic stronghold over the narrow sea.

Cats have been a SL club since 2005. I know 12 years is no time compared to the "established" clubs, but it's certainly long enough to establish themselves as a viable SL team both competitively and in terms of building a fanbase, especially given their "artificial" leg-up.

Cats are a grown up SL club. If they go down, and can't sustain themselves, then they were a house of cards, and never truly a viable team in the first place. If we don't want that, scrap promotion/relegation, strangle the Championsip and revert back to franchises. That's worse for the growth of the game IMO.

I would still prefer to see Widnes go down though!

Catalan Dragons are the result of a merger in 2000 between XIII Catalan (founded in 1934) and AS Saint Estève (founded in 1965) and played 6 seasons before entering SL. Remember Catalan Dragons is not an expansionist club, French RL has been going since the mid 1930's.

I'm sure they will cope. Without promotion or relegation the game will become even duller than it already is.

Again you are absolutely correct. Did you watch him against Leeds last week, he couldn't catch cold. He did not have an effective cup final to boot. Who would you have from this years likely candidates?

He wouldn't be in my top 3 for man of steel. They would all be from Castleford, they won the league by a country mile. I think Millington and McMeekin and have had better seasons. But lets give it to a half.

Joining in with the rest of the debate, I think it would be a tragedy for the Dragons to be relegated. A lot of time and effort has been put in to establish this Super League team, regardless of past history. But the rules for the season were know by everyone prior to the start of the season. If they win we have an away day to the continent, if not we have another Derby.

For me, we should keep the promotion and relegation. One up and one down, get rid of this Million pound game farce However, to be promoted you must meet criteria set down by the league. Criteria that cannot be changed from one season to the next or during a season depending on who it looks may be going down. Criteria that you have to meet prior to the season commencing. Which means if you win the Championship then you are up.

14 league team, bottom two and top two play each other to determine who goes up and down. Do a MPG if so wish.

Will roll same time as playoff between top 6. Those 6 teams left can do what they want, they're not good enough to win the league. It'll be a short play off system (QF, SF between lowest placed teams to play highest placed QF's) so if they don't play, it's not an issue.

Catalan are too important to go down, but not our problem they've drifted aimlessly, not too dissimilar to Hull KR last year. Done them a world of good going down though.

Easy now, we don't want this turning into the Catalans version of that "Where/when did Warrington [iactually[/i play their first game" thread

No he hasn't.

Kelly has been brilliant this season. 20 tries for a halfback is outstanding. He's a fantastic player.

I'd take Walsh and Reynolds if only we couldn't get anyone else and I'd take Bousquet.

7 tries and 115 goals is not too shabby either. He is vital to their team and i would guess that if he missed only 5% of those touch line conversions that Hull wouldn't be in the play off or have won the cup final for the last 2 years.

If you put Albert Kelly in our team this year would we have won more or less? I would confidently argue that if Sneyd was in our starting line up and kicked goals for us we would have made the top 8.

I'd have been happy with Sneyd or Kelly this year instead of Brown.

Wouldn't have wanted Kelly 12 months ago, bit of a messy exit from Hull KR, but would have chosen him over Brown as the more dynamic and free spirit to replace Sandow if we were looking for a like-for-like replacement.