How many of those games we lost with Brown in the starting line up would we have won without him?

Sounds like Brown had a pretty good game for England, with a couple of assists.

Maybe someone who watched can fill us in, but a fit and in form Brown would still make my 17 particularly in view of the confidence that visibly surged through the team last night, and the way the forwards imposed themselves.

Incidentally, I agree with the general view that Smiths introduction changed the game. Dwyer now third choice hooker, fourth if you count Gidley.

Zero

And how can you prove that?

Brown had a decent game for England. He was heavily involved in three tries. He's a very good passer of the ball. I think we are being over critical (as we often are on this forum about our own players). He's been out injured and most of the team have been playing badly. He'll play for us next week.

Gidley needs a rest so use the Widnes game, Livett shouldnt start every game he needs to develop but I thought Patton was poor again maybe he needs a rest Brown and Livett in the halvesin the next game

Rest Gidley in the CC?
Wt..!
Take a gamble in our biggest game?

If he needs a rest....he can have one vs Wigan.

I think a lot depends on if Daryl Clark is fit.

"Patton was poor again", 2 try assists and a few kicks that were spilled in their 10m zone. he put 3 kicks deep into the corner or over the touchline to control the game in the last 10mins. What has a player got to do get some praise. I am sure that people don't actually watch these games.

Patton has been cack for 3-4 games now. Think he's a bit like Matty Smith, fantastic kicking game but will never take a game by the scruff of it's neck and dominate. Patton does have strapping all up his thigh so perhaps he may need a sit down anyway this week and next. I would keep Livett where he is after that performance. Brown has just as good a kicking game as Patton when on the front foot so I'd be inclined to put him back in. Leave Gidley at fullback, have Ratchford on the bench, not sure on the status of Clark but those two interchanging could be killer.

Gidley
Russell, Evans, Atkins, Lineham
Brown, Livett
Hill, Clark, Sims
Julien, Westerman
G. King

Ratchford, Philbin
Cooper, Westwood

No Clark then Ratch and Smith to alternate.

He did bog all for half an hour until Gidley took charge from Full Back.

I think recovery from injuries of Clark and Westerman and just how bad Patton's leg is will make selection a last minute affair. How Gidley can play with a perforated ear drum I don't know. Training will also be affected by Ratchford/Hill/Brown recovery from journey. With the excellent performance of Smith and the rise of Julien and return of Crosby and others we suddenly seem to have a lot more options.

I wouldn't take much notice of WireWireWire, Marsh. He/she just suggested Ratchford playing at 9. That sums up all the RL knowledge I need to know about them.

To suggest Patton does naff all shows how much you watch the game. The team got off to one of the worst starts I've ever seen and played the first 20 minutes under the kosh trying to get a foothold on the game and swing the momentum. once they did that they started applying pressure and the rest is history. a half is a link between the forwards and the backs. Until the forwards start performing and laying a platform the halves have got nothing to work with.

Here we have a young homegrown lad with bags of potential and we have people calling for his head. How did Williams end up as he is? Wayne stuck him in and gave him the 6 shirt and didn't drop him. he allowed him to make mistakes and allowed him to grow into the role.

But instead WireWireWire you want a 20 year old Centre/Backrower after one good game in the halves to be shoehorned in, to partner a panic bought, aging standoff. Who is and generally has been, as you put it, cack for most of his career.

Ratchford as an interchange Hooker... That's a belter that is

Matty Smith is 30 years old, Patton is still learning. His stats for Friday were pretty good, including the pass to Julien that started our revival. He does need to keep improving but he won't do that without a decent run in the team. I don't think any of our starting half-backs this season has been any better.