Outsiders view. I think Patton is plenty ahead of where GOB was at Warrington however GOB is now a very good player now he has been first choice at Salford and got that much needed experience. He is vital to them. Problem Warrington could have is that Patton could keep being stagnated and never progress and end up in the championship where GOB will have had a better career which would be a shame as i think Patton is better. We have kind of done the same thing with Hampshire. We have held him back and held him back and now he is 22 and just been moved onto Leigh. He had bags of potential but if it goes wrong at Leigh there will be no Super League lifeline for him when he could have been an international player if given the chance. His problem is 'Ratchford Syndrome' though. Nobody seems to know where to use him.

Very good post and I'm sure I'm not the only one with the same concerns that your raise. Patton needs high pressure game time, he needs to make the mistakes and learn from them. Rather than be dipped in and out for games against lesser opponents. I think sometimes with GOB everyone was waiting for him to take control of the lesser games, whereas regardless of who the half back is, when the pack are making meters at will (like they were at times in 2011/12, tries often score themselves.

GOB's better games were against better teams, the Wigan game in the play offs, Leeds (in the MND shirt) and St George spring to mind, but he just didn't have enough time to learn from his mistakes and put them right on the big stage.

Saving grace is that neither Gidley or Brown will play 25 games this year, so he will get minutes.

I made no comment on the approach of academy coaches or how to motivate and inspire young people. Just commenting on the likelihood of players breaking though to be top SL players from the current Warrington setup to counter the hyperbole. More than likely we will rely on signing young players from other clubs again like we did this year .

I would hope that Patton t king Savelio Johnson can start to see some significant game time.

Expecting every player from the academy to break into the first team is unrealistic, not just in our own case but in other teams also. So we along with other teams will look to sign talent from other teams to imply we rely on it is unfair.

My concern is that at a club we are reluctant to give a youngster a chance to have a good run of games, unless forced by injury, if sandow/gidley were fit Patton wouldn't have got the run he had and would have lost another year. A question worth pondering is if Williams had come thru our own academy would he be in our first team now, I feel the answer would be no, he was given the hb spot by wane and was given the opportunity to sink or swim and it has paid off. He has a lot more SL experience than Patton and at a young age that's crucial. Their fans had patience and understood he was not the finished article and allowed him time to develop and improve. On the flip side reading thru our forum many people would have a fit if Patton was going to be our starting hb this season.

Quote: Dezzies_right_hook "I would hope that Patton t king Savelio Johnson can start to see some significant game time. Expecting every player from the academy to break into the first team is unrealistic, not just in our own case but in other teams also. So we along with other teams will look to sign talent from other teams to imply we rely on it is unfair. My concern is that at a club we are reluctant to give a youngster a chance to have a good run of games, unless forced by injury, if sandow/gidley were fit Patton wouldn't have got the run he had and would have lost another year. A question worth pondering is if Williams had come thru our own academy would he be in our first team now, I feel the answer would be no, he was given the hb spot by wane and was given the opportunity to sink or swim and it has paid off. He has a lot more SL experience than Patton and at a young age that's crucial. Their fans had patience and understood he was not the finished article and allowed him time to develop and improve. On the flip side reading thru our forum many people would have a fit if Patton was going to be our starting hb this season.'" For good or bad we do rely on it. As for "chance to have a good run of games" 2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Warr ... ves_season O'Brien - 19 games Philbin - 16 George King - 19 Patton - 9 Wilde - 7 Hardly starved of the chance to sink or swim.

Quote: Dezzies_right_hook "I would hope that Patton t king Savelio Johnson can start to see some significant game time. Expecting every player from the academy to break into the first team is unrealistic, not just in our own case but in other teams also. So we along with other teams will look to sign talent from other teams to imply we rely on it is unfair. My concern is that at a club we are reluctant to give a youngster a chance to have a good run of games, unless forced by injury, if sandow/gidley were fit Patton wouldn't have got the run he had and would have lost another year. A question worth pondering is if Williams had come thru our own academy would he be in our first team now, I feel the answer would be no, he was given the hb spot by wane and was given the opportunity to sink or swim and it has paid off. He has a lot more SL experience than Patton and at a young age that's crucial. Their fans had patience and understood he was not the finished article and allowed him time to develop and improve. On the flip side reading thru our forum many people would have a fit if Patton was going to be our starting hb this season.'" For good or bad we do rely on it. As for "chance to have a good run of games" 2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Warr ... ves_season O'Brien - 19 games Philbin - 16 George King - 19 Patton - 9 Wilde - 7 Hardly starved of the chance to sink or swim.

But again, why? I showed an article which had six local players from a dominant local amateur side with five international standard players from two years ago. None of which have been offered full time terms whilst players have been brought in from other clubs above them and typically on far better terms.

I can guarantee that some of them should have progressed as the ability was/is there.

The whole idea of working in the community is to provide a pathway for local players.

It's a good question.

Its probably quite simple really, the players brought in are better than the ones let go. The comments form us fans are biased towards our home grown players. Can you imagine how difficult it is to assess a player at 17/18 and decide which one is going to make it to Super League. We are just fans, friends, family etc we are not professionals at this otherwise we would all be employed by the club. Its tough when it gets to Academy >Super League and I would assume that location of player goes out of the window as its also a business.

But... these players were international players which put them in the top twenty best players in the country.

And decisions are being made about a player being good enough at 17/18 hence them being signed in from other clubs on substantial contracts with an automatic promise of a full time contract after twelve months.

It is about time local players got the same treatment and are valued accordingly. Two tier system based on other factors and not because of ability.

Compare and contrast with Wigan and the way the produce SL quality players locally in volume.

I don't subscribe to the theory that bought in players are treated better than local players. I do believe that there are a number of factors why some fall by the wayside, and they are not all directly to do with how skilful a player is or may well become.

Players are products, they are an investment. And if they are going to produce a return for that investment, they will be signed. If there are factors that may harm that investment, then they shouldn't have the risk taken on them because they are local. The "better the devil you know" mentality is gone, we're in a position to compete for the best, so I think we should.

Junior agegroups go close to predicting who will be in the frame for pro-contracts, but a lot can change between them. Injuries, growth patterns, behavioural patterns, dietary patterns and sometimes players may just become complacent. It's just not an accurate scale to go against, otherwise Pickersgill, Durbin and Bracek would be retiring legends now.

I am a bit surprised Wolf Hall has not contributed to this debate, he made an excellent point on the Wigan board a month or so;

For the latest Academy tour down under, there were 7 youngsters from Wigan. These "Wigan" lads came from Dalton ARLFC, Dalton In Furness, Cumbria; Blackbrook ARL St Helens; Oulton Raiders, Leeds; Stanley Rangers, Wakefield; Seaton Rangers, Workington; Folly Lane, Swinton.

So whilst you have to agree that Wigan do produce a lot of quality players from their locality, they too are 'fishing abroad' when they stock their Academy - and in doing so they will be ignoring / releasing local players who could have taken their place. All clubs do it, even Saints who have a first class set up, poached a quality Widnes lad at the back end of last year. As Barbed Wire points out, it's very competitive out there and clubs will try and lure the best quality juniors into their squads.

Imagine you were a top youngster and had the choice of Wigan, Saints, Leeds or Warrington. Unless there was significant incentive I doubt Warrington would come top of the choices.

OK, I'll bite WO. I believe Savelio will do well for us this coming season. He may blossom under a different coaching environment than he had at St Helens, and he seemed to go well for Cas under changed circumstances at the end of last year. Toby King has the making of a top class centre also, in my opinion. Declan Patton will improve, if he gets the game time.
As far a young talent coming through, I am not close to the recruitment processes and people, coaching and contracts offered to young players.
For example, do Warrington have a list of types of young players they want, eg 4 props, 2 wingers etc etc or just look for good talent whatever position?
Who does the scouting, do they cover geographical areas, how plugged into local teams etc are they?
What do they offer young players to attract them down to Warrington, how does this compare with other teams. If a young player doesn't sign for Warrington, why do we lose them? For example, 3 young lads who played for Warrington local clubs, Rylands and Woolston are part of the Saints Scholarship programme. Did we rule them out or were they not interested? If they weren't interested, do the club know why and perhaps learn lessons for the future? Hopefully...
I believe also that the young players at one of our biggest rivals locally pay their young players a lot more than Warrington do. (Not idle gossip by the way) We can argue whether this is the right thing to do or not. Also some young players we have signed from opposition clubs may be paid more money than our own local lads to attract them here.
For me, the objective should be a mixed programme of local lads ( and get in first, we should have our own local good young lads fighting to get in here) plus good scouting of young players, with the best coaching staff recruiting against a plan for taking the club forward on a rolling 10 year programme. And the rewards for those who join us should reflect the go ahead club Warrington should be.
But what do I know?

Not sure why... Wire have been established in the top club's for long enough now that the chance of trophies can be considered comparable... Leeds has big city appeal fair enough... But what exactly do does St Helens/Wigan have?