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Quote: mark_m "Hang on... You were complaining about ticket prices and saying you only rarely attend now?'"


I have said the North Stand tickets are very expensive for a Cup Game. And I rarely attend now. Correct. If that means to you I cannot make the post I made then just ignore it. But as I've been watching Wire long enough, on and off, for 30 years I guess I feel I can make the post. Yes I'm in a bit of a lull at the moment as I'm not enjoying my Rugby, but I will always be loyal to Wire.

I guess I am calling for a bit of perspective, loyalty and a bit of decency. Rather than rabid knee jerking and toys out of the pram. We are beginning to sound like Man City fans. 30 years of nothing, then whining when we don't win all the time.

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Quote: morrisseyisawire "The loyalty of the fan to the club should be unswerving and without question. Many of the supporters of the club will, like me, have spent god-forsaken afternoons in weather that would send a dog scurrying underneath the kitchen table, wondering if they would ever see Wires win [ione[/i challenge cup final in their liftetimes, let alone three. So we should be eternally grateful to TS for that golden period in the club history.

However. that period is gone. The old maxim in sport about only being as good as your last game is partly true. We cannot present TS and certain members of the squad with endless get out of jail free cards on the basis of events that happened two seasons and more ago. That way lies stagnation then decline.

Compare and contrast two hugely successful British football managers of (relatively) recent years, Alex Ferguson & Brian Clough. Ferguson achieved success over an unprecedented period by constantly reviewing, appraising and changing his squads and did not allow sentiment or loyalty to get in the way. Brian Clough achieved remarkable success at Derby & Forest, before he went into decline. His decision-making, recruitment and tactics became questionable and led to the the club itself going into decline, something they have never recovered from. Forest stuck with him purely out of loyalty, and the stubborn belief that he could recapture former glories. Granted, Clough's decline was largely due to alcoholism but it's a valid comparison.

There's a point where blind loyalty, and ignorance to an individuals failings, becomes terminal and we may be approaching that point with several individuals at the club. They may have served us well in the past, but are no longer doing so and indeed are holding us back.'"


Totally accept your point and Im not advocating endless get of jail free cards. I advocating a little more patience than 1/2 of one bad season for a coach who had delivered so much. I'm not advocating being sentimental about players either - just that I'd like their demise and exit from the side to be handled with a little more grace than "get shut he's gash"

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Quote: ricominciare "Smith I believe has said the criticism of Agar is unwarranted hinting all is well, no sign of him around last night though.

As for loyalty we are all behind the club just commenting on our observations, the players self criticise after they feel they have had a below performance Mick Monas would sulk for a week after a defeat, is it that Smith is too loyal? possibly, as others have stated we feel the half back position has not been sorted, yet to Smith he had Myler, O'Brien, Ratchford with Bridge in the mix so to him where's the problem, that I think is the problem not facing up to the fact for whatever reason they are collectively not doing the business.'"


I think that Smith was unable to attract the big HB he may have wanted for the season after Briers and he backed his young players to step up (good that a coach backs his youngsters). However this does not seem to have worked for whatever reason and so Smith has, in hindsight, made a mistake. I don't think him airing this in the press would be productive. I would rather like to think they are trying to resolve out of the glare of the media and forums.

Imagine him trotting out the lines "I had hoped GOB, Patton or Myler would have stepped up but they have been found wanting so I am looking to get rid and replace them". No that's not the way.

He's made some mistakes and I'm sure he will learn from them.

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Quote: Wires71 "I am saddened by the attitudes I see on here.

So OK we are not playing well and are likely to have an uneventful season. Some players are suffering with form, some signings have not turned out how we may have wished. But blimey the reaction? Like a petulant 3 year old denied a toy.

May I remind that Tony Smith has been the most successful post war manager this team has ever had. We have won 4 trophies under his reign and 2 GF visits. This was the stuff of fantasy in my period of watching since '79.

We are having a poor season but I back him to sort it out. The faithful backed Cullen for 6 seasons of mediocrity without achieving anything prior. Surely we owe Smith a little loyalty, breathing space and time?

Also the way certain individuals talk in derisive terms about players who have won silverware for us less than 3 years ago, but now are struggling, speaks volumes about them. e.g.) Joel Monaghan leading try scorer last year and darling of the faithful in 2014 can now "get shut". Ben Westwood who runs his blood to water and earned the monicker "Super" can now be got rid off like an embarrassing relative. Charming fans aren't we? Zero grace, honour or class.

To me loyalty and fairness means sticking with people through the good and the bad and giving them a fair chance and reasonable time to remedy the situation.

I believe that is in the best interests of the Club at the moment, rather than the rabid demands for a mass clear out.'"



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Quote: runningman29 "No sentiment in the results business + what respect I had for Smith went right out the window when he got his best buddy squah partner a job and let Monas go + you talk about loyalty!'"


Has it crossed your mind that he may have considered Monaghan to be under qualified for an assistant role at a top professional RL side seeing as he had never done it before ? Or did you want to appoint him on sentiment ?

As for Monas I wonder how many loyal fans wanting him on the coaching staff as "a legend" were one of the ones that berated him when he joined and demanded we "get rid as his knees are shot" before his last superb season.

Now you are saying you have no respect for Smith, after all we achieved with him. That just astounds me.

Best fans in the league?

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Quote: morrisseyisawire "The loyalty of the fan to the club should be unswerving and without question. Many of the supporters of the club will, like me, have spent god-forsaken afternoons in weather that would send a dog scurrying underneath the kitchen table, wondering if they would ever see Wires win [ione[/i challenge cup final in their liftetimes, let alone three. So we should be eternally grateful to TS for that golden period in the club history.

However. that period is gone. The old maxim in sport about only being as good as your last game is partly true. We cannot present TS and certain members of the squad with endless get out of jail free cards on the basis of events that happened two seasons and more ago. That way lies stagnation then decline.

Compare and contrast two hugely successful British football managers of (relatively) recent years, Alex Ferguson & Brian Clough. Ferguson achieved success over an unprecedented period by constantly reviewing, appraising and changing his squads and did not allow sentiment or loyalty to get in the way. Brian Clough achieved remarkable success at Derby & Forest, before he went into decline. His decision-making, recruitment and tactics became questionable and led to the the club itself going into decline, something they have never recovered from. Forest stuck with him purely out of loyalty, and the stubborn belief that he could recapture former glories. Granted, Clough's decline was largely due to alcoholism but it's a valid comparison.

There's a point where blind loyalty, and ignorance to an individuals failings, becomes terminal and we may be approaching that point with several individuals at the club. They may have served us well in the past, but are no longer doing so and indeed are holding us back.'"


The thing Ferguson had was having faith in his youth,a treble that will never be repeated by anyone in my time. The fans wanted his head early doors,but in the end it was Ferguson who knew his time had expired.

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Quote: Wires71 "Smith

He's made some mistakes and I'm sure he will learn from them.'"

Your kidding me. He is stubborn as he is mild mannered.
He refuses to move Ratchford from FB when the most important position in a team is HB.

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Quote: Wires71 "
Imagine him trotting out the lines "I had hoped GOB, Patton or Myler would have stepped up but they have been found wanting so I am looking to get rid and replace them". No that's not the way.
'"


"We've been scouring the world looking for half-backs," said Smith, 48.
"I don't want to make my half-backs feel bad about it, but we understand that we haven't been consistent enough in those sort of positions this year."

Not a huge difference. The implication is similar in any case.

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Quote: Wires71 "I am saddened by the attitudes I see on here.

So OK we are not playing well and are likely to have an uneventful season. Some players are suffering with form, some signings have not turned out how we may have wished. But blimey the reaction? Like a petulant 3 year old denied a toy.

May I remind that Tony Smith has been the most successful post war manager this team has ever had. We have won 4 trophies under his reign and 2 GF visits. This was the stuff of fantasy in my period of watching since '79.

We are having a poor season but I back him to sort it out. The faithful backed Cullen for 6 seasons of mediocrity without achieving anything prior. Surely we owe Smith a little loyalty, breathing space and time?

Also the way certain individuals talk in derisive terms about players who have won silverware for us less than 3 years ago, but now are struggling, speaks volumes about them. e.g.) Joel Monaghan leading try scorer last year and darling of the faithful in 2014 can now "get shut". Ben Westwood who runs his blood to water and earned the monicker "Super" can now be got rid off like an embarrassing relative. Charming fans aren't we? Zero grace, honour or class.

To me loyalty and fairness means sticking with people through the good and the bad and giving them a fair chance and reasonable time to remedy the situation.

I believe that is in the best interests of the Club at the moment, rather than the rabid demands for a mass clear out.'"



I agree, we do need to show loyalty. I think TS needs to extend Bridge's contract for next year. OK, Bridge is a bit crocked, but he has been a very loyal player for us over the years and how better to show our appreciation than to offer him another two year contract ?

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Quote: Wires71 "I am saddened by the attitudes I see on here.

So OK we are not playing well and are likely to have an uneventful season. Some players are suffering with form, some signings have not turned out how we may have wished. But blimey the reaction? Like a petulant 3 year old denied a toy.

May I remind that Tony Smith has been the most successful post war manager this team has ever had. We have won 4 trophies under his reign and 2 GF visits. This was the stuff of fantasy in my period of watching since '79.

We are having a poor season but I back him to sort it out. The faithful backed Cullen for 6 seasons of mediocrity without achieving anything prior. Surely we owe Smith a little loyalty, breathing space and time?

Also the way certain individuals talk in derisive terms about players who have won silverware for us less than 3 years ago, but now are struggling, speaks volumes about them. e.g.) Joel Monaghan leading try scorer last year and darling of the faithful in 2014 can now "get shut". Ben Westwood who runs his blood to water and earned the monicker "Super" can now be got rid off like an embarrassing relative. Charming fans aren't we? Zero grace, honour or class.

To me loyalty and fairness means sticking with people through the good and the bad and giving them a fair chance and reasonable time to remedy the situation.

I believe that is in the best interests of the Club at the moment, rather than the rabid demands for a mass clear out.'"


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Quote: rubber duckie "Your kidding me. He is stubborn as he is mild mannered.
He refuses to move Ratchford from FB when the most important position in a team is HB.'"


I don't know Tony Smith personally. What I do know is that he is a highly successful SL coach who has won silverware with 2 separate teams. I am not. He is the professional with the knowledge. I am a fan.

If he has his reasons for the team formation I will accept his judgement as that is for the best, when all is considered.

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Quote: Winslade's Offload "I agree, we do need to show loyalty. I think TS needs to extend Bridge's contract for next year. OK, Bridge is a bit crocked, but he has been a very loyal player for us over the years and how better to show our appreciation than to offer him another two year contract ?'"


I think, with respect, you may have missed my point. I wasn't suggesting players be given contract extensions as a "thank you". I just think we could speak of them a little better when it's clear it is time to move on. Seems we treat players who are of diminishing use to us very poorly on here.

I wouldn't mind but in a few years those players will be lauded as "legends" and spoken of in awe.

All I am suggesting is a little balance and perspective between oscillating within 2 seasons of "we have one of the strongest squads in the league" to "we need a mass clearout"

As I said the fickle, cynical nature of it saddens me.

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Unfortunately all things considered isn't getting us results in a business that has success based upon them.

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Quote: rubber duckie "Unfortunately all things considered isn't getting us results in a business that has success based upon them.'"


Results you say?

TS seemed to get results in 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 and to the GF in 2012, GF in 2013 and the GF Semi in 2014. Based on results in his 6 year tenure he has done outstandingly. I'll trust his judgement over the long term and not after a bad few months.

Is there another current coach who has won 4 pots and reached semi finals or finals in every year since taking the helm ?

Some people have a very short memory.

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Show me a man who never made a mistake, and I will show you a man who never made a decision. Smith should stay and discard Agar and the fitness coach for someone better. Our attacking game is non existent, our defence is lethargic and our fitness looks decidedly dodgy.
Apart form that, where are Penny, Russell, Grix, Evans x 2? Why is Ratchford wasted at FB?
If the fans can see the problems why can't Smith and Simon Moran? I'd love to know Mr Moran's thoughts on this season. After all he wouldn't let Take That get away with sub standard shows.

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