......and who was brought up in Wigan.

Thats what i think, really thought he was fantastic last year and said you wouldnt be the same without him.

What exactly is his injury?

But in reality that won't be an improvement, last year we were the best team in the league and this year we are not.

Last year after we lost that playoff to Leeds one of the worst things about it was the fear that with an ageing side we were a team that had a window of opportunity to win the Grand Final before a young and up and coming Wigan team overtook us and that last year might have been the best chance. This season is supporting that theory although we have by no means faded away, just the edge has come off us with signs that a few of our players are starting to decline, albeit slowly. Leeds were in this position a couple of years ago, we saw at Wembley the signs of rustiness in their once great team but they did rally for one last hurrah, probably like Chelsea have done in football this year in the Champions League when the league has shown they are in this position, so our best hope may be that the players sense it and in the big games they rise for one last herculean effort. Even for the guys like Hodgson, Morley who have won Grand Finals before down under, they will know that this is the last time in their careers that they are going to be playing for trophies.

I think it will take time for Saints, Leeds and Hull to rebuild to a point where they are challenging Wigan and I think Hudds will slip back when Brown leaves, and Catalans are good but not THAT good, so I think we may be entering a stage where Wigan take pole position and are the premier side in SL for the next two or three years, with us slipping back to a point of best of the rest but behind Wigan. This will especially be shown when Briers leaves as it will be very difficult to replace him, and who we get to fill his place will determine a lot.

That said I would not get too cocky if I was a Wigan fan as there are risks on the downside for them as well. They really need to re-sign Finch, if he leaves then Matty Smith is nowhere near the same calibre of replacement. I also think a Iestyn Harris situation is developing with Sam Tomkins where it's inevitable he will go to union in a year or so, probably the RFU will make their move in 2013 so they can have him in time for the 2015 World Cup, and Wigan will get a large transfer fee as he is still under contract. Wigan are good and have a lot of strength in depth of home grown talent but remove Finch and Tomkins and they will need to sign big (from Australia) to replace them, big as in get someone like Slater or Inglis to join.

Sorry Sally but signing big from Australia is almost impossible now, every club needs to build from Within to be successful, seeing players given a chance in SL must motivate every player in the U18's and U21's to do everything just to be selected for the senior side.

Losing Leuluai and finch next season would be a big blow, we would have others chomping at the bit though just for a chance, Losing too many is always a killer which worries me as Carmont, Lima, Fielden are gone or almost certain to go.

If Joel Tomkins comes back from Union next season, i think Sam wont be going anywhere apart from Maybe the NRL.

No way atall we are second in the league and have won eleven games on luck!...

IMO were doing well this year, bit scratchy at times but im not worried atall, go look at the league table n chill....

Just in reply to those doubting Wigan's ability to keep up this level of play. In 2010 we (Wigan) led from the beginning, maintaining that consistency all the way to our Grand Final victory. Just because Wire led from the beginning last year, looking very much the team to beat, only fall at the last hurdle. Doesn't suddenly mean that'll be the case with any subsequent teams that dominates the weekly rounds. Know one's placed to determine whether a team has peaked or not until season end.

we have missed monas more than anything his speed around the ruck hope he is back soon

Last season we were by miles the better team, but as we painfully know Leeds were 'Crowned Best In Super League'.

If we reach 2 finals the that will be an improvement, I agree that improvement will not be in form but in the season outcome.

I agree what you say about the current top clubs and I still greatly fear Saints. They are the ones who this year could stop us reaching our 1st ever G/F.

But all this is early days in a season only 50% done. Wherever Saints, Leeds Giants & Catalans finish come round 27 they will greatly turn up the heat come the play-offs & we must match and better that.

I'm relaxed at this stage of the season. 2nd place and not playing our best with key players out. I trust Smith. Wigan will not relish playing Warrington as they will a few more times this season no doubt.

That said last year was probably our best chance to win the SL, but that does not mean we cannot win it this year.

Call it a mirror image of last season. Wire were the best side by a country mile last season. Wigan had definately fallen behind them. This year, probably due to the reasons already mentioned on here - injury to M Monas (massive blow), King gone, Morley injured / not playing at same level. Whereas Wigan for whatever reason (Wane / Harris?) have improved players performances and recruited extremely well. Hansen, Goulding, McIllorum, Finch, Sam and Mossup have all improved on last season. Added to that Dudson, Flower, Luarki have been relatively successful recruits. Hock is benefitting from getting game time back under his belt. (When he is not suspended that is!)

I was worried about Hoffman going as he was a class act, however Hock, when he keeps his cool, has been sensational.

Joel left but was not missed as he played a full season out of position at centre anyway, where Goulding has come in and is putting them on a plate for Charnley, something Joel couldn't do.

What tickles me is that Wigan posters last year, knew deep down that Wire were better. Coming out with rubbish like, were not putting 50+ past teams like you are because we are conserving energy. What total rubbish. I don't hear them complaining about wasting energy after Friday nights performance. Alright you lost in the play offs, you didn't bottle it, you just didn't quite get the result against an inspired Leeds.

Fair play to Sally for the opening post. Still think that Wigan / Wire are the best 2 teams by a mile. There will be the odd upset and strange result but the only fixtures I have concern over ATM is you away in the league and the Wembley final should we both get there which would be a great game and worthy final.

good post

SL Season begins in September as both yourselves and us found out last season. Yes we have been as impressive as you were for all of last years rounds of SL. Talking to a few Wigan fans and its not what we are doing atm that's getting us excited its the age of the side. Looks like the side could be together for a long while apart from a few players that come and go. With so much cap space available for next season we could sign 1 or 2 quality players and kick on rather than mass changed which some teams will have to do sooner rather than later. Leeds are threatening that atm and your not even close to been in that state. So stop with the doom and gloom your a good side with great players.

We have got immensely lucky that MM and Goulding have become very good for us at the right time. But flash back a few months was near desperation on our board that Maguire was gone and we recruited Harris, Flower, Dudson and Lauaki and that's without the loss to the Giants on round 1.

There is a saying its better to be lucky than good when you get both its a blessing and we have had our fair share of luck virtually all decisions over the last year has turned out well. Joel leaving only for Goulding to be a much better centre for 1 and Hock has been the best second row in SL replacing Hoff. Whilst i have watched the best Wigan displays for a decade we all know nothing is won now and that come August-October there will be a lot to play for, for both Wire and us. Both sides are the best in SL and have been for a while but been the best counts for nothing if you win nothing. And we have won nothing so far.

Good points there.

For me, it boils down to the fact that Warrington are the 1 side I don't want to face in a final.

Yes, Wire aren't as good so far as they were last year in the weekly rounds, but as someone else has said, it really doesn't make a massive amount of difference. We're 1st and 2nd, we were 1st and 2nd this time last year and both in the Semi Finals of the CC as favourites.

I've got a horrible, horrible feeling it's Wigan and Wire in both finals this year just like the OP, and I don't think any of us would be massively confident of who would win them.

It's not doom and gloom, I'm not trying to unnecessarily write us down, I might even be overconfident because I have pretty much already banked in my head that we are going to Wembley, I expect most Wire fans have secretly as well, it will be a nasty shock if Hudds beat us.

I expect us to be a top 3 side for the foreseeable future. Wigan are in pole position to be the best team in the league for the next few years, as tank123 says the age of the side is in their favour. Wigan are like Leeds were in about 2004 and they went on to win five titles in the next eight years, but with one big difference. Although both squads were young overall the key players at Wigan are older than they were at Leeds. Sinfield, Burrow, McGuire were aged 20-24, with Senior probably another key player who was 27. With Wigan now most of their key players are in the age range 28-30, ie O'Loughlin, Finch, Hock, Leuluai, Richards, with Tomkins being the younger one at 23 but potentially not being long term because union will want him. I think Wigan are well set for a stable side for the future but they will need to do more of a rebuilding job to the core of the team than their fans let on to us when they are telling us we will fall by the wayside when Briers, Morley and Michael Monaghan retire.

IMO its about four or five key players (plus a coach) that really determine a top side, Saints have proved that, they have still got all those guys like Wellens, Meli, Gardner, Wilkin, Flannery, that were smashing everybody in the old days but they aren't scaring anybody now they don't have the core of Cunningham, Sculthorpe, Long, Graham and Pryce with them. We have known for a while that we are going to have to replace our core over the next 1-3 years and it will be a major issue for us but one cause for optimism this year is our core hasn't been firing on all cylinders this year and we have still done OK, so we're in better shape overall than I thought we might be last year when I thought we were really riding off the back of Monaghan and Briers class hence at the start of the season all my doom warnings that if we lost one of them for a significant part of the season we were done.

On Monaghan (M), I know this is a controversial opinion but I reckon he's the best player in Super League (yes above Roby, Tomkins and Briers) and this season he hasn't done much and then got injured. If he gets back fit and has a good final two months of the season that could be decisive and end up with us winning one or even two trophies. So although I'm concerned that Wigan are ahead of us I can see reasons for hope as well.

A very good point. I think the key to this is to manage the transition as well as possible, and our hand will be forced a little with the halfback situation this winter. The spine of the team has a nice age range - Sam is 23, as it stands Finch and Leuluai are 30 and 26, Mickey Mac is 24 and Lockers at 29 - this should allow us to stagger when they need replacing, but the halves sitaution for 2013 is anyone's guess at the moment. It certainly shouldn't be as drastic a change when we lost Radlinski, Lam, Newton and Farrell all within the space of a year or so.




He's a brilliant player, and should have won MOS last year for me. It's heresy to even siggest this in some parts, but I'd have him over Roby without a second's hesitation.