Biggest panic decision ever, the guy has taken them to 2 Grand Finals. Its the loss of Graham and Cunningham that has cocked Saints up, not Simmons. If anyone is to blame its Mcmanus for not replacing them.

We are not at cap. We did not sign a prop when we missed out on Mills and Griffin. Also lets not forget the Tomkins deal. Which no club as far as I'm away have exploited apart from Wigan.

So the money may not be the issue. The quota is, but given our start and current events, it's not beyond imagination for a player to want out of their contract. In the end even if it's true. As a halfback Lyon would give the experience and guidance we need around the park, but we would still be 1 or 2 props short. Depending on who would make way for him.

But given the sacking I would not put this being beyond silly season rumours.

21-12 : 2 grand finals??????????

Also past performance is not an indication of future results. The here and now, did not indicate a return to form.

Nonsense. He's in the second season of a two year deal, so has only got us to 1 Grand Final. Saints last season were performing horribly for most of the year. Only a surge in form off the back of the young players got us into the league position we got and our run in the play offs was more to do with Wigan imploding than anything. Wigan, Wire and Huddersfield were all better than Saints last year.

Losing Graham and Cunningham should have an impact, but not the kind of impact that drops you from being competitive with the big teams to being beaten by a Bradford team missing 12 players (!) and leaving us 9th. The performances this season have been truly horrific and he had lost the dressing room. What benefit is there in keeping him on?

I thought Saints had re-newed the contracts of a few of the "golden generation" since the end of last season eg Gaskell, Foster, Lomax - this will not have come cheap to secure the services of such world class players.

What is the "Tomkins deal" you speak of? I hope you don't believe the myth of a "marquee player" that was being claimed by Wigan at the time of Tomkins' new contract.

lets be honest its james graham that saints are missing really. his go forward, unpredictable offloads, big defence and massive leadership was a HUGE HUGE part of that team.

i say its a bad decision to sack simmons. i don't think an ex star player and whoever the other guy is can do a better job than simmons. if saints buck up then it will be the teams response NOT these two!

If I was brown (the guy tipped for the future) I would run. Saints at the moment are toxic. They haven't got the resources to win trophies but the fans and the sky team won't accept that. Thet want to believe that saints are still the best thing since morning seconds.

Shame really. A few names will be ruined by getting involved.

Nope we had Lord Elrond of Rivendell in 2010.

It won't be Nathan Brown.

Hasty decision if no long term replacement (Brown) is not immediately available. Some good points made regarding Graham who was a massive player for Saints and without Roby the team looks beatable. Think they will have to go backwards before they go forwards and this might just write off their season.

I don't understand your point really? Saints can spend up to the cap and there aren't many clubs paying transfer fees at the moment.

Saddened, they are missing you over on the Wigan forum. They send their regards.

I didn't mean capital (although the stadium and paying Royce off won't have been cheap)

I meant the tools; the making up of the team (Players, first and foremost, are not up to scratch. The Roby tea tray joke is so funny because it is so true. Plus the backroom staff looks shaky and the chairman and board are in no man's land with transfers)

2005- Daniel Anderson in charge
Getting transfers such as Lyon from Australia
A spine of Cunnigham, Long, Wellens etc
Good, exciting youth coming through
Good pack
Confidence

The pieces have been falling apart one by one. With out one of those things the chances of success drop dramatically. Saints have, arguably, lost ALL of them.

Royce wasn't the problem. Potter wasn't the problem 2 years ago and when Cunngham and his shadow eventually fail, it won't be their fault.

I never thought I'd say it but Saints are well and truly on the decline.

And they'll probably go and beat us twice this year...

No doubt. After I said that. I actually spent a couple of mins just looking at that sentence. The wounds haven't healed and I don't want to jinx it.