You say that nobody has tried to influence you, the whole war is about a big bloody influence.... heres the early start to it. Broaden your mind lol www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

You say that nobody has tried to influence you, the whole war is about a big bloody influence.... heres the early start to it. Broaden your mind lol www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

And for those who cba reading the whole letter from Bin Laden to America / the west...

b) It is the religion whose book - the Quran - will remained preserved and unchanged, after the other Divine books and messages have been changed. The Quran is the miracle until the Day of Judgment. Allah has challenged anyone to bring a book like the Quran or even ten verses like it.

(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.

(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest.

So because they have oil and heroin that we can pilfer, then invading their country is fine and dandy???...

Personally, I think their gripe is as valid and as legitimate as the Irish, even if their method of protest leaves a little to be desired.

To be honest, I reckon you should just stop taking your Daily Mail too seriously.....Those few who did the poppy burning are no more a threat to our way of life than Griffin and his posse of nutters who want to drag us back into the dark ages.

Why did we take Ireland? Who knows; Guiness and potatoes probably. Although I guess it was to do with all the food (wheat I think) that was imported from there into England whilst the local population starved due to consecutive failures of the potato crop.

I would love to here your view on the Falklands War or the "Stake A Claim For Antartic Mineral Rights" War as I like to call it.

Well the reality is that in all these cases, most of the protesters, aren't doing it because they were directly affected, they just identify with a group and want to protest and get some attention. I doubt many of those Celtic fans were directly affected by the British occupation, they have just grown up being told that the British army are scum, so its programmed in them that anything to do with the British army, they have to react by opposing it. Same with the Muslims, they have everybody calling them terrorists and have the British army bombing their homelands, so it's programmed in them (and encouraged by nutjob clerics) to oppose everything the British army stands for.

And then you get students throwing fire extinguishers off buildings and smashing up buildings over fees that they aren't going to have to pay, they have just latched onto a cause and used it as an excuse to fight.

The Falklands War has been misinterpreted through history. The levels of mineral reserves were based on speculation and in the years leading up to the war, we were trying to find ways of negotiating away the Falklands without losing face.

When Galtieri invaded, the general view from the British government, the military and the establishment was that the Falklands wasn't worth it, the odds of success in a military campaign were slim, any financial benefits from holding the Falklands were uncertain and would be many years away, the country was in the middle of a recession and this was an expense we couldn't afford with very little chance of success and Mrs Thatcher was taking a huge political gamble in taking us into what could be a hugely embarrassing defeat. The Americans were friends with Galtieri just like every right wing dictator who persecuted communists so they were dead against us going to war.

Thatcher fought that war on principle and she was in the minority of her own Government and advisors in going to conflict. With hindsight people say she fought that war to get her popularity up, but at the time the military feared that we couldn't possibly sustain a war against Argentina, fought on such a distance with a limited fleet. In fact had it not been for the Argentinian air force getting the wrong fuses so most of their bombs didn't activate when they hit our ships, they could have destroyed our fleet.

If you read my post i said a proportion.

EDIT and the topic is the modern governments changes and im highlighting whats going on right here right now, not the foundation of extremist muslims, as surely they would date back to when the Koran was written

DERAILTASTIC.
This thread was about IDS's mission (cause that's what he's been doing since he lost the Tory leadership) to get the majority of the unemployed (who can work) back to work, now it's become a morallistic "football" re Ireland/Bin Laden/Maggie-Falklands/Muslim extremists. It's beginning to become as sanctimonious as some of the "debates" the RLFANS "hierarchy" have on The Sin Bin.

Back on subject. Great. Get ALL of the DON'T WORK, WONT WORK (because they DO exist, no matter what the apologists say) back into jobs, menial tasks or not. NO-ONE has the given right to sponge of the state for n number of years.

So who employs them? Would you hire them and pay the minimum wage, plus all the employers national insurance contributions, to do a 'menial task'?

The government can't command private companies to hire these people. They have the pick of the market now, there's hundreds of thousands of recently redundant people who want to work, and have a track record of getting out of bed and working, so when companies need to hire people even for low level jobs, they are going to hire these people not the long term dossers.

The only way you can get the long term unemployed into work is if the state employs them, in socialist societies you get the state making everybody work and providing menial jobs that don't really need doing, for the sake of making people do something with their lives. However even if you paid these people low wages, the costs of this are expensive because you end up paying them more than you are currently paying them on the dole, and you have to hire people to manage them and supervise them, on higher wages, and it becomes a government job creation scheme which the Tory government won't do because it's trying to cut public sector jobs not increase them.

The Tory government is hoping that it can force these people into 'jobs' but it can't force the people hiring, to hire them, they will just hire other people who actually want to work and aren't total losers.

So what do we do then, Sal, with these people. Just because the private sector will have (admitted) reluctance to take the workshy on ( I DO see exactly where you're coming from), do we, as a society, simply allow them to sit on their lazy "bottoms" and watch their equivalents on Jeremy Kyle/Trisha every day, or do we "shake them up" and get them to actually contribute to society, and not take all the time.

I've done some time on the dole, during my time of working age, due to redundancies/site closures/end of contracts, and it aint a nice place to be, yet to SOME, it's a way of life, and it's usually the shell suit wearing "herbert" who just "doen't give one" about working.

I think IDS for all his uselesness, is the nearest thing we'll get to a compassionate Tory, so we better get used to it.

Logging off for the weekend now....ahh Guinness, real ale and Shiraz, but not on the same night....what a hangover that'd be.