This happened a couple of years ago, Saints taught Leeds a rugby lesson in the playoffs at Knowsley Road and the Sky commentators were saying how can Leeds pick themselves up from that, and it went on to be reversed in the final.

Not saying that will happen, I would still fancy Saints to beat us at KR in the next playoff but there won't be in it, it will be a dangerous game for them as it would be galling if they slipped up in an elimination game against us. We have won two Challenge Cups so will be a dangerous opponent for whoever gets us in playoffs.

Leeds did it to Saints in 2007 and 2008 coming back from 10-8 and 38-10 defeats.

For Wire its all about mental toughness now. To go on to win the double must be one of the most difficult achievements to do do these days. Saints did it back in 2006 but that was when the challenge cup was in May. Saints tried the double again in seasons 2007 and 2008 but the 4 week turnaround from the CC Final s too much of an ask to get back mentally for the play offs. This is what is the Wire are going through at the moment.

Got the best coach to try and do it though!

I am sure the change to thw CC final happened in 2005 when Hull beat Leeds at the millenium stadium and one year later when we played Hudds at Twickenham in August.

Whatever happens in our next game it can't be as insane as the last 68 minutes of the Saints game the other night.

Stillins essentially fronted it out after going 8pts down and instead of taking them on at that game to put them back in their box we completely gave up/didn't bother/lost the plot. In the CC Atkins was immense in taking the ball up early in the tackle count allowing the forwards to get themselves set and come flying on to the ball - against Saints the other night I think he touched the ball twice .... what was that about? Briers lost the plot early on as well and tiny Myler was about as cranked up as I've ever seen a man on a pitch. Strange game on our part I have to say but you gotta take your licks and get on with the job next time round, we just seemed to be devoid of fluidity of thinking on the hoof the other night but if I may I'd like to say this - apart from the first 12 minutes Saints essentially beat a garbage team so yay them.

[sizeps - please, please, please will someone at the club get a RU kicking coach on board so that we can convert what we score. It's driving me nuts the amount of points we leave hanging around because we can't stick the ball between the posts.[/size

Wigan will pick the lowest placed team to avoid any motivation/red faces if we lose

HKR looked impressive tonight, whoever plays them next is in for one hell of a game

HKR were impressive in the way they despatched their opponents. However, the game itself was a couple of notches down on the standard of Rugby that Wigan , Saints & Wire have produced this year, and I would expect Wire to see them off comfortably if producing anything close to what they are capable of if they were to meet next week.

But surely a loss to the lowest placed team would be the ultimate in red faces. lets face it, when it comes down to the final playoff week, all 4 teams deserve to be there and all 4 teams are just 80 mins from a GF appearance (and who says its gonna be Wigan?)

This is the problem we had when Long was our kicker

Saints did to us what we did to Leeds at Wembley - soaked up 15 minutes of pressure & then simply did not allow us to play while taking their own chances. Leeds bounced back the week after & I fully expect Wire too as well.

If I was offered a choice now between beating Hull KR/Huddersfield next week, then winning at Knowsley Road the week after and LOSING the Grand Final,

OR

beating HKR/Hudds, then beating Wigan or Leeds the week after and WINNING the Grand Final without playing Saints after they lose to whoever else plays them, I think I would actually choose the winning at Knowsley Road option.

I don't care if that's small time, petty, obsessed, jealous, or whatever other derogatory superlative that could be aimed at me. There will be other Grand Finals to be won, there will never be another game at Knowsley Road, and winning it after sixteen years of torment there really will mean THAT much to me.

If we don't then that ground will haunt me for the rest of my days.

And that is why you are known as the bitters, and that is why you will always be a small club comperad to us. Its that ingrained small time mentality that sees small time victories as more important than the real stuff that matters. The GF will always matter more than a one off game against a rival to any truely proffesional team.

FWIW I have the same frustration with our own fans regarding the attitude towards Wigan. Like you with us, we will always be in their shadow due to the silly little mentaility of so many of our fans.

To be fair it's just my own opinion and I imagine most people on here will disagree with me.