you live in a different world to me, i played RU for 22 years, yes i briefly went to a public school, but my son who goes to a state school plays rugby union (u10's) and the club infa structure is way ahead of RL. YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO A PUBLIC SCHOOL TO PLAY RUGBY UNION! the club that my son plays at is more working class than warrington ever could be. it is niaive to believe all these class issues have as much to play in thing as they used to do. i am a loyal wire fan and have been for over 30 years however this belief that RU is an
elitist sport played by the rich and afluent is poppycock!

Just to reinforce the 'YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO A PUBLIC SCHOOL TO PLAY RUGBY UNION!

Lymm RUFC Under 17s have just become North of England Champions with a group of guys from state schools/colleges from across Warrington and are now through to the National semi finals.

A good news story for Rugby in Warrington if nothing else!

Union is just an inferior game, too many rules ,too many penalties , not enough tries, too many imported players at the highest level , poor points scoring system 5 for a try , 3 for a drop and 3 for a pen takes away the need for scoring tries which imo is the whole aim of the game, put the ball over the whitewash !
Thats why it's turned into YAWNION |

You know originally the "try" was simply to earn a "try at goal" and was not rewarded by points in its own right*.


[size*On further research a try was awarded with 1 point. [/size

OK - then why is the percentage of top level RU players from the private education sector still so high - 80 % of the current England squad are taken from a sector of society which constitutes less than 7% of the overall population -and if player development is so good in RU why are the RFU - which represent a country with more RU players then anywhere else in the World still scrambling around struggling to get a decent team together to the extent that any decent SA or Kiwi playing in the GP who qualifys for residency seems to get touted for the England side - also if you believe the rather ludicrous assertion that RU is not an elitist sport( The official Sale website even boasts on it`s home page how many of their supporters are Company Directors) try talking to the working-class Ben Cohen who was recently reciting on Radio 5 what a struggle it was for himself to break into the sport due to his background .
Incidentally my late Father was an ex-Capt of Warrington RU and my uncle played for Broughton Park prior to sigining to a RL club and going onto rep hoonours ...

RU has turned itself over the last 30+ years into a sport that is based around goal kicking, purely and simply because of the 3 points for a goal rule. Occassionally an international RU team comes along which tries to run & entertain, usually this team is Fiji or sometimes France but apart from that rarely do you see the emphasis on entertaining outweighing the fear of losing you see in England now.

Interestingly on Radio 5's Fighting Talk a few weeks back the question was asked "What sporting team is in real trouble of collapse at the moment" or something similar. Martin Bayfield (ex England RU forward for younger readers) answered that Australian International RU is under serious threat from RL, Cricket & Aussie Rules - seemingly not all in the RU garden is as rosy as some would make out...

Yeah, well you rugger buggers would say that.

Much of that would still hold if you replaced RU with cricket.

I really don't think we are on safe ground basking in the schadenfreuden of potential Australian international RU demise with our international setup in RL. And of course we should remember the Cook Cup event at Twickenham in November last year sported a capacity attendance of 82,000.

Also the introduction of the 5pt try in 1992 seems to sit at odds with your 30+ year comment.

Out of interest I understand the fact that the majority of top level RU players may come from the private education sector, what I don't understand is why that is such a problem necessarily?

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of world quality 100m sprinters are black and that the vast majority of premiership footballers come from humble origins, not that it matters in my view. There doesn't need to be parity.

Its a toffs game......RL is a working class game thats why it is and always will be a Northern sport.

All the top RU teams are from the southern side of the country although huge investments from Sale and Newcastle dented it they are now in fee fall and have severe debts while the southern teams still bask in the southern money...

OK, let's go with this moot for a bit and counter with...

Is cricket a "toffs game (sic)" ? I've been to OT a lot and it's never struck me as such (to counter the general class argument)

How would you explain the riches of Northern English association football sides and the makeup of the english teams in that sport? Is that Southern money? Are the English players predominantly from more advantaged backgrounds? (to counter the wealth vs north argument)

Was Mike Gregory a toff? He is just one example of a number of prominent RL working class players whom played a lot of RU before signing professional terms (to counter the accessibility of RU to northern working class people argument)

Are we not all a little jealous of (if not bitter to) the sport we consider inferior to be just that more popular, nationally and internationally, than Rugby League if truth be known (moving the argument on)

my god i have never seen so much inverted snobbery! i am probably more working class than all these people who have slagged me off on this forum! i've certainly watched warrington longer than most of them, i appreciate the north south divide thing must really get to some people however your behaving just as elitist as YOU claim RU is.

john woods played RU is he a toff? roland phillips?kevin ellis? scott gibbs.

just because you play union does not make you a snob, just as playing rugby league, or even watching it does not make you northern or working class.

for what it's worth i hope my son does go on to play rugby league when he's older however i feel his foundation in rugby union will only help him rather than hinder.

oh browny, your nowt more than offensive! so bog off until you have something more constructive to say muppet! i have and never will have anything to do with buggery, it appears to be in the forefront of your mind tho' lol

I am jealous in so much that, in what I deem a vastly inferior spectator sport, dominates the media and general public perception that is a superior game.

And breath!

sponsorships and tv rights bring in absolutely millions aswell as multi millionaire owners. I am not jealous 1 bit of Rugby Union as it is more supported due to the fact it is played in all the schools in the south and some up north so has more scope and touches more people, the game is a terrible spectacle and cannot understand these people who spend hundreds of pounds to watch england.