Because the long term plans are still South Wales if you read whats coming out of Wales. The Wrexham thing is just desperation as no one else will help them out. It's Wrexham or bust at this stage.

TBH mate I am past the stage of caring anymore tbh. We'll never be in SL IMHO. Not complaining, as I will watch the chemics wether it be in big games like Wire or Wigan away, or London Skolars. I think you appreciate the game a bit more when in the lower divisions. I have watched Widnes rl for 15 years now, 11 of which have been in the old NFP/NL/Champ 1 and tbh I'd happilly follow suit for the following 15 years. It is up to the powers that be now, i don't like to go into the politics of it anymore. If we're in great, 2-3 thousand bandwagon jumpers join the party, if we're not, we're not.

We are probablt in the best position out of everyone in our league, regardless of what the virtual terrace tools tell you, but only time will tell. Barrow and Toulouse are leading favourites in my eyes for 2012.

Have a look at some of the crowds at Wilderspool which wasn't so long ago.

Saddened is right. Catalans wasn't an expansion franchise, it was taking a Super League team to a rugby league community, which isn't the case of Wales which was taking a Super League team to a rugby union community and hoping they would take an interest in league.

There is a good following of the oval ball in Warrington so if a RU franchise was set up there (perhaps to groundshare out of the HJ?) would it have good potential to get crowds?

the catalans franchaise was always right,the south of france is their rugby league heartland,the ill fated psg set up went west because they had no history in that area of league,wrexham could well prove to be a success as the crowds will no doubt be higher than in the south wales rugby union hotbed purely because that area of north wales is close enough to be embraced by super league and the interest generated will bring the locals out to support it,it just beggars belief that the rfl didn't look at this before the celtic crusaders were given a franchaise before they had a home to call their own.

crowds are likely to be higher just because it's closer, more away fans are going to attend due to distance being reduced and not having to stay over in some cases.

it makes no difference to me tbh, i'd go if it was in north or south wales, just means i'll be home quicker july 3rd next year, sat night in north wales....nah!

It will be interesting to see what the RFL will do in 2 years when they decide who will get a licence, so many clubs were granted a licence on the grouds of new stadiums in the pipeline, with the recent credit crunch some clubs have struggled with finances and their plans have gone up in smoke. Will they apply special rules to let clubs in or will they be strong and kick them out??

Rugby league in london is slowly starting to filter through. Remember the old broncos teams just full of aussies without there own stadium and no fans.

Nowadays they have serveral promicing home grown players, there own ground and finacial security and attendances are slowly but surley increasing.

Do you know how many 'away fans' there are in reality?

I cringe when the flatcappers moan about Catalans saying there are no away fans. But most clubs only take around 200 to away games anyway, and that is within the M62.

thats 5, possibly 6 points for the crusaders. B licence

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That last line might come back to haunt you- The WRU over the last 16 months have developed a strategic plan to create a new 5th Welsh regional team based somewhere in North Wales, 12 months ago they chose Colwyn Bay to be the base and Parc Eiras will have quite a lot of money spent on it for upgrading, theyve just appointed Clive Griffths to head it up and last week the Welsh Ru Youngsters played Australia youth in Colwyn Bay

Additionally Rugby Canada are going to allow some of their more Experienced players to come over in the next few months to help them develop at the right pace ie not rushing the project- saying that Leicester Tigers are sending a team up there next month to play a game

Make no mistake the WRU are serious here and , theyve got plenty of money and time and theres an amateur infrastructure already there - once again it seems whichever door we open RU are in first

if you search around theres plenty of stuff about this on the web -

Phil the WRU have no plans to opt for a fifth team - the North Wales team is a lower tier side anyway to suggest that a side like that are somehow competiton for a SL side team based in Wrexham is ridiculous especially as Soccer is the first love of that area anyway .

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youre right as in the short term theyre aiming to put them in the welsh premiership , but ive no doubt what the long term aim is , and that by growing it slowly it will be sustainable . if they pull it off they'll have a huge advantage in recruiting young players and with what theyre spending on investment and infrastructure theyre serious , given that Wrexham is only 45 minutes drive from Colwyn Bay id say most definitely its competition-

the soccer side comment is right but that will very likely always be the case

wrexham is only 33 miles from warrington so an easy travel for wolves fans but now many fans will travel from warrington on home gates of 9000. 1000 if wolves are lucky

Why don't Widnes merge with Crusaders and play somewhere in between, say, Chester?