Well every day is a school day. Here was me thinking it was a team game and all along it is totally down to the forwards if we win or lose.

You should know better, Mark. People like Father Ted and the Electric Gliding Warrior are never wrong and they should be revered by those lesser mortals like ourselves.

In 2013 Wire have played 27 Super League, 2 Play Off games and a Grand Final = 30 games = 120 interchange places.
Ratchford appeared on the bench twice
Chris Bridge four times
O'Brien once.

Carvell, Cooper, Currie, Dwyer, Harrison, Higham, Laithwaite, McCarthy, Michael Monaghan, Morley and Glen Riley filled the rest.

Total of 7 out of 120 (6%) places went to backs. Which bench have you been paying attention to?

For me the game was heading Wigan's way before Ratchford went off. He left at 16-12 I was very confident indeed.

I've wrote in my match report that I think the bottom line difference has been Tony Smith's refusal to back Warrington youth this whole season. You've the oldest squad in Super League and he's just stuck by them yet again. Youngsters have had chances, but have clearly not been given the chance to knock a player out of his position and grasp it for the big games at the back end of the year. That suggests they are not good enough, or lack the mental strength Wigan's kids have. The fact is highlighted by Warrington having ZERO players in that 17 who had both come through your academy system and been given a debut AFTER Tony Smith since he took over, who after all has been there for five seasons now.

9 of that 17 played in the Cup Semi you won five years ago, just four for Wigan. Smith has not trusted your youngsters, who won the Under 20s last season, like Shaun Wane has with our youngsters. In those same five years we played Hughes, Thornley, Crosby, Farrell, Charnley in that final, all having been given a debut during Smiths reign at your place. Trusted by our coaches and more importantly the fact they've been given chances to grasp positions ahead of more experienced players has given them the belief and desire to achieve a league title.

Small margin but I really think if you've got just one or two fresh, but quality, academy produced kids in, I think you'd have won either last or this year. In the end Smith played, pretty much, the same side that failed in 2012. Nothing changed in twelve months and thats ultimately why you failed again.

Interesting thought provoking post bilko

As Bilo says the difference between the 2012 and 2013 sides was minimal, which insidently a few of us were discussing last Friday.

I'm not having that. With hindsight, it's easy to pick the bones out of a defeat. Alan Hansen gets paid tens of thousands every week from the BBC for doing it.

I agree that we should have brought players in at the beginning of the season but not necessarily youngsters, unless they were better what what we've already got. Even successful squads need refreshing if they want to continue their success. The transition to next season would have been easier as well.

But let's have a look at this old team. Apart from a couple of games, they strolled though the league and reached the semi final of the cup. We had a real off day that day but still could have won in the last minute if a pass to Higham(?) would have been six inches or so more forward. But our old team kicked on and made it up to second in the league to put them into a really good place for the play-offs. The old un's then went on to dispose of the current Champions, Leeds; and the League leaders, Huddersfield.

I've not watched the game again but I didn't feel we were in the game during the final but our old team found their way over the line three times and put themselves in a great position at 16-2. So after 2358 minutes of the season, our old team had done enough to be clear in the Grand Final and all looked good. So what happened between that moment and the next 42 minutes. We all know the answer to that, twenty eight unanswered points. Injured players and a couple of unfavourable decisions, combined with the fact that we were up against a very good team, meant it wasn't to be.

I saw a mate on Saturday morning. We asked each other if we though we'd do it. I said I don't know it was too close to call. He said it all depends on how the ball bounces. The missus said it was the second time in two days she'd heard that phrase and didn't understand what it meant.

It turned out that both my mate and her mate were right. For 38 minutes it bounced our way and for 42 minutes it bounced Wigans way. Nothing to do with the age of the squad.

Too many experienced players and not enough youth in the team ..... interesting take on it.

So, we should've played Dwyer at hooker, Riley (G) at prop, Currie at 2nd row, GOB in the halfs, Evans on the wing etc etc - all of whom have played, and played well, in the last couple of seasons, and will feature more and more over the next few....... and we'd of course be sat here with the same people saying "What was Smith doing? Dropping the players who got him to the final and bringing in all those inexperienced youngsters".

Maybe the younger players wouldn't have sustained injuries or tired at the end of the game ... but would they have prevented Wigan from scoring early on? And would they have exploited gaps in the Wigan defence and gotten Wire 16-2 up in the first place? I doubt it.

Bottom line (now my heads cleared and I've watched the game a couple of times) - Those 'oldies' got us 16-2 up with nearly half the game played. A combination of injuries (from whatever cause) and fatigue forced Wire to shuffle players into unaccustomed positions, which caused enough confusion in the ranks for Wigan to take advantage, and they turned the scoreline around, winning the game.

As a coach I'd ask one thing and one thing only - every player gives 100% during their time on the pitch. I can't think of one Wire player that didn't ........

Good post Bob and spot on IMO.

Imagine the bruhaha if Smith had followed Bilko's retrospective advice and not stuck by the team that nearly won the double the previous year? There were a few malcontents over the omission of Hodgson in favour of Ratchford.

Perhaps Smith's 'failure' was to rely too heavilly on the maxim that not only are our players experienced, they are GF experienced and that would prove a deciding factor and an improvement in our fortunes from last year? I for one went along with it and I know its all 'ifs and buts', but, we were hardly a million miles away in the grand scheme of things over the 3 comps.

I must say when we beat Wigan at the HJ a few weeks ago Shane Warne was only too happy to lament the fact that he had experienced players injured & had to fill in with youngsters & that was why they lost.

On that occasion the young lads did him & Wigan proud just as they did in the final & it just goes to show that the strength of a club's academy is vital to its success. The Wigan youngsters were proved to be more than equal to the task.

Makes me wonder why he signed Bowen when they have a ready made replacement in Ryan Hampshire.

At the risk of misinterpreting Bilko, I don't think he is suggesting that Tony Smith should have thrown all the kids in at once. The facts speak for themselves though with regard to the numbers of juniors brought through and given the chance to stake a claim to a first team spot. Do Warrington fans believe that players like Riley, Harrison, Cooper et al have kicked on under Smith.

Watching the Grand Final Gold clips on Sky this week, it showed last seasons final and Riley was still missing tackles and Cooper was still giving silly penalties away. Does Myler look a noticeably better player than he was at the time of his Salford move? He was talked about in the same vein as Tomkins and Eastmond as future England half back.

Ive done an analysis. Ive worked out why the whole structure broke down across the field..... The early punch that went unpunished by the ref caused friction in the wigan side. If you watch closely you can observed the wigan team singling out out our 3/4 line. And whilst we have a player knockout, the scene was already being set that would completely turn the next stage to follow into carnage. Our coach lost the plot... When we was awarded a penalty for foul play, you can clearly see him waving his arms that certainty isn't indicating he wants us to take the kick. After losing a back after he is seamingly knocked out, we were unable to get another back from the sub bench to correct our balance. Thats all I can say on it, you'll have to watch it for yourself and make your own judgement www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjLC_vqhfZ0

Ive done an analysis. Ive worked out why the whole structure broke down across the field..... The early punch that went unpunished by the ref caused friction in the wigan side. If you watch closely you can observed the wigan team singling out out our 3/4 line. And whilst we have a player knockout, the scene was already being set that would completely turn the next stage to follow into carnage. Our coach lost the plot... When we was awarded a penalty for foul play, you can clearly see him waving his arms that certainty isn't indicating he wants us to take the kick. After losing a back after he is seamingly knocked out, we were unable to get another back from the sub bench to correct our balance. Thats all I can say on it, you'll have to watch it for yourself and make your own judgement www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjLC_vqhfZ0

You have to watch it first Tees