Five props, a hooker and a loose forward all out. The problem is that all those five props would not have played.

Indeed!

Plus Logan Tomkins and Don Crosby were better on Monday night than McIlorum and a number of those props have ever been against us. I can't see any of those props displacing Crosby from the Wigan side to be honest.

Self belief and confidence are at the heart of any top sporting performance. It even helps to have a bit of arrogance. So the last thing that Wayne is likely to do is to talk down his teams performance. If doubt starts to drip into his team, then balls get knocked on, passes go astray, wingers just fail to ground the ball, and chances go missing. It's his job to talk his team up and keep confidence high, especially after a defeat to a big rival. The Wigan fans are entitled to repeat his mantra, but I seem to recall a year not too long ago when we were 'the best team in SL'. We ended up winning the hub cap, but nothing else.

That defeat will really hurt, especially because their team gave everything on the field, and yet still got beat.

Wire can go second if Huddersfield lose at Catalan and we beat Bradford.

Back on thread, rather than continuing with an in depth exploration of whether Wigan's youngsters are better than their first choice counterparts, for me in a word, no.

Monday's game would have always been Monday's game no matter what the format was and to some extent no matter what the relative league postions of the teams were heading into the game.

Sure I think that expectations and atmosphere are heightened because it is a local encounter and the two teams are 'riding high'. Sadly, this type of game will only occur at the HJ twice, three times in the entire season or perhaps four or five including Play Offs and a big CC draw

I wouldnt necessarily call the season as 27 friendlies BUT I can see some grounds for calling it 27 warm-up games. I remember the days of the Locker Cup pre-season "friendly". Even though it was simply a warm-up for the season to come both teams used to compete for braggin rights.

This "warm-up" view will continue for as long as
a) over half of the division gets into the play-offs, and
b) winning the LLS is devalued by both SKY (by concentrating on the GF) and by fans from all clubs (remember how it was "worthless" to Wigan in 2011, and then to ourselves in 2012).

Taken from Bilko's excellent summary. wigan.rlfans.com/news.php?readmore=2682 "Tony Smith became Warrington coach in March 2009 and yet for all that time, =#FF0000 Warrington only played one academy produced player in this match that he has given a debut to. For the record that was 18 year old Ben Currie. =#FF0000Meanwhile named a Wigan team that has seen Josh Charnley, Sam Powell, Logan Tomkins, Dom Crosby, Greg Burke, Jack Hughes, Chris Tuson, Tom Spencer and George Williams come through during that same time frame. Now don't get me wrong. We all know had Blake Green, Ben Flower, Mike McIlorum, Sean O'Loughlin, Eric Lauaki, Gil Dudson or Scott Taylor been fit they would have been fighting to get in the team, but the point I'm making is that this was a huge leap for Wigan going forward, comparing the two sides experience. The average age of the Warrington side was 29.2, which compared to just 22.7 for Wigan. That averages out at 6 and half years more experience a man more that us. That's a hell of a difference. So for us to go toe to toe with them for almost 80 minutes has to be taken as a huge positive."

Taken from Bilko's excellent summary. wigan.rlfans.com/news.php?readmore=2682 "Tony Smith became Warrington coach in March 2009 and yet for all that time, =#FF0000 Warrington only played one academy produced player in this match that he has given a debut to. For the record that was 18 year old Ben Currie. =#FF0000Meanwhile named a Wigan team that has seen Josh Charnley, Sam Powell, Logan Tomkins, Dom Crosby, Greg Burke, Jack Hughes, Chris Tuson, Tom Spencer and George Williams come through during that same time frame. Now don't get me wrong. We all know had Blake Green, Ben Flower, Mike McIlorum, Sean O'Loughlin, Eric Lauaki, Gil Dudson or Scott Taylor been fit they would have been fighting to get in the team, but the point I'm making is that this was a huge leap for Wigan going forward, comparing the two sides experience. The average age of the Warrington side was 29.2, which compared to just 22.7 for Wigan. That averages out at 6 and half years more experience a man more that us. That's a hell of a difference. So for us to go toe to toe with them for almost 80 minutes has to be taken as a huge positive."

Also, 5 props out, with spencer playing very few minutes, meant we played the majority of the game with 2 props. So crosby deserves his credit and is first choice, but dont pretend wigan cant be improved by fit players.

Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"Taken from Bilko's excellent summary. wigan.rlfans.com/news.php?readmore=2682 "Tony Smith became Warrington coach in March 2009 and yet for all that time, =#FF0000 Warrington only played one academy produced player in this match that he has given a debut to. For the record that was 18 year old Ben Currie. =#FF0000Meanwhile named a Wigan team that has seen Josh Charnley, Sam Powell, Logan Tomkins, Dom Crosby, Greg Burke, Jack Hughes, Chris Tuson, Tom Spencer and George Williams come through during that same time frame. Now don't get me wrong. We all know had Blake Green, Ben Flower, Mike McIlorum, Sean O'Loughlin, Eric Lauaki, Gil Dudson or Scott Taylor been fit they would have been fighting to get in the team, but the point I'm making is that this was a huge leap for Wigan going forward, comparing the two sides experience. The average age of the Warrington side was 29.2, which compared to just 22.7 for Wigan. That averages out at 6 and half years more experience a man more that us. That's a hell of a difference. So for us to go toe to toe with them for almost 80 minutes has to be taken as a huge positive."'" do you not get bored beating the same monotonous drum year, after year, after year?

Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"Taken from Bilko's excellent summary. wigan.rlfans.com/news.php?readmore=2682 "Tony Smith became Warrington coach in March 2009 and yet for all that time, =#FF0000 Warrington only played one academy produced player in this match that he has given a debut to. For the record that was 18 year old Ben Currie. =#FF0000Meanwhile named a Wigan team that has seen Josh Charnley, Sam Powell, Logan Tomkins, Dom Crosby, Greg Burke, Jack Hughes, Chris Tuson, Tom Spencer and George Williams come through during that same time frame. Now don't get me wrong. We all know had Blake Green, Ben Flower, Mike McIlorum, Sean O'Loughlin, Eric Lauaki, Gil Dudson or Scott Taylor been fit they would have been fighting to get in the team, but the point I'm making is that this was a huge leap for Wigan going forward, comparing the two sides experience. The average age of the Warrington side was 29.2, which compared to just 22.7 for Wigan. That averages out at 6 and half years more experience a man more that us. That's a hell of a difference. So for us to go toe to toe with them for almost 80 minutes has to be taken as a huge positive."'" do you not get bored beating the same monotonous drum year, after year, after year?

Wigan's new benchmark of success is going toe to toe with an ageing past their best Warrington side for most of the 80 minutes before losing it for fitness in the final minutes.

In the old days their benchmark of success was winning the Challenge Cup every year.

I dread to think what will happen to us when we have to face a strong Wigan 17 in the return fixture at their own ground.

Oh...

Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"Taken from Bilko's excellent summary. wigan.rlfans.com/news.php?readmore=2682 "Tony Smith became Warrington coach in March 2009 and yet for all that time, =#FF0000 Warrington only played one academy produced player in this match that he has given a debut to. For the record that was 18 year old Ben Currie. =#FF0000Meanwhile named a Wigan team that has seen Josh Charnley, Sam Powell, Logan Tomkins, Dom Crosby, Greg Burke, Jack Hughes, Chris Tuson, Tom Spencer and George Williams come through during that same time frame. Now don't get me wrong. We all know had Blake Green, Ben Flower, Mike McIlorum, Sean O'Loughlin, Eric Lauaki, Gil Dudson or Scott Taylor been fit they would have been fighting to get in the team, but the point I'm making is that this was a huge leap for Wigan going forward, comparing the two sides experience. The average age of the Warrington side was 29.2, which compared to just 22.7 for Wigan. That averages out at 6 and half years more experience a man more that us. That's a hell of a difference. So for us to go toe to toe with them for almost 80 minutes has to be taken as a huge positive."'" The score was 22-12, that is the only stat that is worth a toss really, nice story though, i enjoyed it. Our 29.2 year olds had more stamina than your 22.7 year olds too, these young un's eh? They're not like they used to be, we used to walk to school in our day...on our hands, but you try telling them that, they won't believe you.

Quote Rogues Gallery="Rogues Gallery"Taken from Bilko's excellent summary. wigan.rlfans.com/news.php?readmore=2682 "Tony Smith became Warrington coach in March 2009 and yet for all that time, =#FF0000 Warrington only played one academy produced player in this match that he has given a debut to. For the record that was 18 year old Ben Currie. =#FF0000Meanwhile named a Wigan team that has seen Josh Charnley, Sam Powell, Logan Tomkins, Dom Crosby, Greg Burke, Jack Hughes, Chris Tuson, Tom Spencer and George Williams come through during that same time frame. Now don't get me wrong. We all know had Blake Green, Ben Flower, Mike McIlorum, Sean O'Loughlin, Eric Lauaki, Gil Dudson or Scott Taylor been fit they would have been fighting to get in the team, but the point I'm making is that this was a huge leap for Wigan going forward, comparing the two sides experience. The average age of the Warrington side was 29.2, which compared to just 22.7 for Wigan. That averages out at 6 and half years more experience a man more that us. That's a hell of a difference. So for us to go toe to toe with them for almost 80 minutes has to be taken as a huge positive."'" The score was 22-12, that is the only stat that is worth a toss really, nice story though, i enjoyed it. Our 29.2 year olds had more stamina than your 22.7 year olds too, these young un's eh? They're not like they used to be, we used to walk to school in our day...on our hands, but you try telling them that, they won't believe you.