I not only agree with you but I wonder how anyone can put it down to lack of professionalism or “culture”? Sometimes the rugby gods are just against you…

In his book, Lee Briers mentions how Tony Smith changed the "mentality of the team" from 2009 onwards - that's the professionalism & culture that was different than the preceding years, but still the small onfield margins might always inhibit success.

We were done by a battle-hardened Leeds side in both 2011 and 12, which I can live with. However, I still maintain we were a Joel Monaghan and Stefan Ratchford injuries away from victory in 2013, which were down to lady luck and some dubiously cynical tactics on behalf of the opposition.

The 2013 final always feels like the one that was stolen rather than lost for me.

Good bit of gamesmanship in all three finals ,playing the ref can be the difference in one off games where there's a reluctance to send players off.

The fact that Smith filled our bench with forwards, when he could have included Brett Hodgson on our bench, meant that those 2 injuries impacted on our team so badly.

We ended up with Briers at fullback and Bridge on the wing and a totally unbalanced team.

I'm sort of glad we didn't win in 2013 - the whole Westwood v Green incident would have always tarnished it somewhat.

Clearly this is much easier say, in principle, when we didn't win.

The Monaghan one was the killer for me. Completely flipped the momentum and they scored straight off the back of that.

Is that any different than the St Helens no try in 2019?

Yep - one was a blatant act of thuggery and a cop-out by the ref, the other was just a great/poor onfield ref call.

Yes, definitely. If the Monaghan incident hadn't happened & we had held that particular Wigan phase of attack out (which without the disruption is likely), then we would have comfortably won that final.

It's all the rub of the green though and it's what makes sport so special. But when you are on the receiving end of such incidents then it's hard to forget and accept.

100%…filling you’re team full of south sea islander near crash test dummies, doesn’t constitute a pack.
Filling your team with big men with a footballing brain does.

It’s where I echo ‘WILLOWS TOURS’ on here.

Hit them, hurt them, get on with hitting and hurting.
Do your apologies after we’ve won the game.

I don’t want to see our players give someone a big hit, bordering legal, go over and offer the guy a handshake. If he’s hurt, let the magic sponge offer the apology.

The thing I like of how were shaping up is that we can afford the luxury back towers like Currie should we have enough field position and momentum from the middle players. If we can get Currie back to playing as a wider creative player having Ashton, Dufty and Wrench outside him in space then it could work out well. It’s just important that we undertake the hard work in pre season and fix up our defence and get fit enough to compete over 80 minutes.

I saw Lee Briers so shell shocked, he packed down in the second row.
Wigan hit us, Wigan hurt us, Wigan beat us.
Yes they cheated and bullied, and they were the Champions.
Then they made up and shook our hands.

Agreed. And presumably anyone else who agrees can’t then put our lack of success in SL down to culture. On at least 3 occasions it was down to something else completely.