Phuzzy's Post is pretty much How I see the Botica thing. Wigan didnt carry Players yes they may have had the odd player who wasn't that good Billy Mcginty, Mark preston, Ged byrne, Ian Lucas etc etc (theres probably a lot more to be fair) but carrying a player isnt the way to win multiple challenge cups and League titles.

Botica was a Key player to their success in the same way Hanley, Gregory, Edwards, Tuigamala, Bell, and to a lesser extent Offiah were.

Offiah is the odd one if anyone wanted to pick out a player......Wigan Didnt need Offiah at all even Mark preston did a job for Wigan as we can testify in the 1990 challenge cup final.

wigan didnt need offiah as much as they needed Botica....

as A wire fan your heart sunk When Wigan Scored out wide becasue you had no glimmer of hope that it was only going to be a four pointer.. it was more often than not 6....

its fair to say he grew into his stand off role but what half back doesnt.....

Very true and, to be fair, he wasn't a half bad full back before becoming a half! He was rated in that position by some very good coaches. All round good rugby player who, I get the feeling, could have turned his hand to any position along the back line had he wanted.

Didn’t he play on the wing for the first half a season or so?

Good player who’s transition was made easy being in a team that was fully pro and years ahead of the competion.

Had he been playing for Leigh I suspect we wouldn’t even remember his name, such is the cruel nature of sport.

He did for a short time but it soon became evident he had much more to offer with ball in hand. Whilst you're probably right on the face of it regarding playing at a lower club I think the same could be said of any player. The truth is that, on the whole, players find their level. The fact that he was at Wigan at that time says less about luck than the quality of the player. You don't become an All Black by being the sort of player who would languish at a lower level.

Interesting debate about carrying a kicker btw. It's something that's often spoken about but I can't remember many examples where this has been the case. Most great kickers have also been great players. Looking at Wigan, for example, our best have been the likes of Sullivan, Farrell, Botica and Richards. Hardly the sort of player that could be said to have been carried! I'm not even sure there is a position in the modern game where a player could be hidden anyway.

Yes it wasn’t a dig at Botica, he was a legendary sportsman. Just think that his talents wouldn’t have shone through if he’d made the transition in a club in the lower half of the table.

Look at this article on NRL.com from a couple of years ago

We won a challenge cup final with Ben Westwood kicking!

My feelings too. He's playing a bit like a man keeping out of trouble. Mind you I'd rather him do that if it keeps him playing.

Yep, he has more than enough influence on the attack even without him taking on the line. If the true reason is his leg, then can’t wait for him to be fully fit. And since his celebrations of try-scoring have been questioned previously, all we need to do is have him spend some time one-on-one with the legendary Richie Mathers and he’ll be back-slapping to a world-class level in no time...

Botica wasn’t wanted by Monie when he was signed but he became an integral part of that Wigan side. He certainly wasn’t just in for his goalkicking but I’m sure it helped. He played test rugby for New Zealand in both codes. Certainly good enough too.

I happen to think Offiah took Wigan to another level as he was easily better than Preston. The Miles and Offiah partnership was the best centre/wing combo I’ve seen in nearly 40 years.

I like Sally’s post about getting a kicking coach in and also the bit about scrummaging. It couldn’t do any harm and would bring a bit of variety to play which SL is sadly lacking to this outsiders point of view.

Have a good season Wire.

Wish the full match was available somewhere... ??

I can’t find it anywhere which is a shame. Wish it could be uploaded to YT.

Haven't we done that so many times with Andrew Johns?
Lee Briers would have be present at those training programmes. LB memory can't be that bad.