He doesn't get involved enough in games. I don't feel he will make the grade.

He hasn't made the grade, sadly. He's played nearly 50 games now and in the last year of his 2nd full contract.

Not good enough simple as that. If he were to be a regular starter for us in the halves this season then we’ll be destined for the bottom four once more. We need better, much better. Not sure what other Super League team, if any, would have him?

I don't agree about Livett. Firstly he hasn't had more than a handful of first team starts. When he did play he showed some good touches indicative of a 'rugby brain'. I would pick him over Patton, though I beleive the lad considers himself a back-row forward.

I agree with you on Livett and to some extent the same applies to T King as far as I'm concerned. We've seen far more of Patton and whatever anyone's views are, they are definitely better founded

Not the half back I think the club and many of us were hoping for. You have to give Toby King and Harvey Livett the same chance as Dec has been afforded.

My summary of Dec last night was he was anonymous until he got sent off and then played a blinder.

Rochdale.

Do any of you remember when Iestyn Harris was finding his feet in first team rugby. ...the amount of times he'd use a variety of skills to beat people was astonishing. ..and the amount of times many of us simply shouted. ...he's effing world class. ...

That's what you want from young kids. .... livett has size and maybe pace Toby King I genuinely honestly and brutally believe has nothing that hints he's a professional player. And Dec Patton is rank ordinary and can put a high bomb up.

The Iestyn Harris's of the world are few and far between but none of the current crop are anyway near good enough. .......
Jon roper also at 18/19 had bags of pace strength and a good centres pass. Toby king I despair I want the lad to do well but every time he's given the opportunity he makes huge errors. ..

Big shake up required at academy level we may be ranked outstanding but we are just producing kids for Salford and widnes and the championship. ..

....and they are producing them for us, and end up being our senior players which is more alarming.

This. Deserves it's own thread to be honest.

Our youth set up has a track record, dating back decades, of not providing players good enough for the 17. It's a simple as that. It needs a complete drains up review.

The typical process is this .

1) Player shows a bit of promise (not world beater by any means) but those who follow the academy tell us to watch out for them
2) In and out of 17 as quality just not good enough
3) Loaned out to Rochdale etc to get game time
4) Transferred to Widnes/Salford or below.

Few exceptions. Dwyer to Leeds and Philbin looks like he may be good enough.

I am afraid Toby King, George King and Declan Patton will all be going the same way as Evans, Williams, O'Brien, Laithwaite, Wilde, Ormsby, Glen Riley, Blythe (#1), ....

Usually these players get excuses made for them on here, the story is always "would have been a great, but was treated appallingly (ie dropped for a series of indifferent performances) and then lost his confidence". Then there will be some false comparison like look at George Williams at Wigan, he didn't become a world beater overnight and they persevered with him, just think if our lads had come through at a club like Wigan or Leeds, how great would they have been...

Most of our Academy products would never have got the number of games that they got with us, had they been at Wigan or Leeds, they would not have been able to get away with ordinary performances as some other young lad would have come in their place and then been better and locked them out of the team.

It's actually the other way round. Matty Russell came through at Wigan and they binned him after a couple of games, and it was us who has been giving him game after game to give him experience of first team SL so he can develop and make it etc.

Patton will get dropped and there will be moaning on here about how badly he's being treated, and then the team will keep losing without him and while he's out of the team his reputation will be rehabilitated as the potential saviour of Warrington, if only Price was willing to give him a shot and not persevere with Roberts and K Brown just because they are on bigger salaries etc.

Yes, wasn't 2017 all about Tony Smith allegedly stifling Patton's natural game? No, Patton's lack of ability is stifling his natural game.

As for Russell he got binned at Wigan (2 games), Hull (6 games), Gold Coast (0 games). Only us mugs give him close to 100 games.

Until we have the balls to admit that these players are just not good enough and seek better, then Warrington will continue to be not just good enough.

None of this is Steve Price's fault however. We need to face facts our youth set up has not got any better under Cullen/Lowes/Smith.