Sure it was Hudds we played last night ?

Most parts of the civilised world and even in some parts of Warrington, people who seriously follow the game are aware of the greater spending power of SL clubs due to the salary cap difference. If Warrington put a team together on a salary cap of £300,000 I would bet that they would only be average performers and the attendance would be less than that of Widnes.

I stress the attendance because I am sure that the fair weather supporters that watch Warrington presently will abandon their club if there is lack of success. I hope not, because I think good crowds is good for the game.

And, by the way, what is unusual about us losing to Leigh? The Leythers beat us every year!

The main problem for Widnes, in the first year especially, is that they will have a squad made up of other side's cast-offs, and will inevitably be paying them above their worth in order to entice them to play for a 'promoted' side.

Take Jon Clarke for instance....He will be offered a 'peanuts' deal to stay at Wire (if he gets an offer at all)....He will then see what other offers are out there, and then along come the likes of Widnes, Salford and Crusaders trying to outdo each other with offers that are way above what Clarke actually is worth.....Clarke then, quite rightly, takes the best offer.

Use this type of example 9 or 10 times over, and Widnes will inevitably have a second rate squad for the first year back with the big boys.

I would be very surprised if Jon Clarke came to Widnes. We do have some good young players coming through. There is always a problem for a team coming through as the gap between SL and the championship to getting too big, with the quota rules and the vast difference in salary cap.

Steve O'Connor is shrewd businessman and will look at options very seriously, knowing full well that the first year in SL is a time of acclimatisation rather than a time for going for glory. Having said that I do not believe that Widnes will be at the bottom of SL in the first season. We are a well known and well respected club worldwide and I do think that there will be quite a few players ready and willing to play in the Black and White.

The Viking Stronghold initiative is a very good one which I think will be followed by a few clubs in the fullness of time.

On another note it is refreshing to see such sensible posts rather than the stupidity of Wonder Wire!

It isn't just Leigh though is it ? Its pretty much everyone you play in your mickey mouse league. And you talk about fairweather supporters.... where's the 10k plus crowds you used to get in the 70's & 80's ? They only stopped going through the turnstiles because you got relegted and you weren't good enough.

As for the 300k...... its only the same as Halifax or Leigh spend, yet they win games and take you to the cleaners every time they play you. Its just a shame the RL were too spineless not to take on-the-field ability into account when awarding the franchise because Fax would have been the shoe-in.

I wouldn't get too obsessed by Sky's money or the salary cap. I'd be more worried about attracting the calibre of player to your club that will even make you competitive. Its going to be a huge embarrasment to our sport watching you get smashed week-in week-out by even the average teams in our league. Cringe'ing just thinking about it.

Why how many finals have Leigh reached in the last few years?

You say we'd get smashed every week why would Leigh be any different, they'd still need signings & Fax bottom of table as it stands so same for them.

Would losing games be more embarrassing or would a club having a major injury cases and having to postpone SL fixtures as had no academy to fall back on be worse?

Don't under-estimate Jon Clarke's relationship with Paul Cullen....

I actually wonder how "interested" some of the Widnes players will be. They know they are going up. Some will likely know they will be out-the-door to make way for bigger signing. OK, they are supposed to be professionals, but with nothing really to play for, it makes you wonder.

On the other hand, you could take the view that they need to impress this season to get a championship contract with other teams next season

Castleford weren't 'smashed week-in, week-out' when they came back up a few years ago, were they? And Cas did not have nine months to strenghthen their squad. A few years down the road look where they are now. There may be a few berks on the Widnes board whose excitement at their SL license has them predicting World Club Challenges in twelve months, but most realise it will take time. With a full salary cap, there's no reason why Widnes cannot assemble a squad that can be competitive, at least. On top of that, SL is getting more 'evened-out' every year - how else could hapless HKR 'smash' Leeds yesterday?

The demography of the town has changed since the 70's and 80's, as well as not getting into SL.

Halifax are currently bottom of the Division due to some players having left because they had the salary cap dispensation last year due to contractual obligations.

So you are going to watch us getting smashed next season --- you are privy to our potential signings, then?

This £300k thing is a misnomer from the off.

Fax, Barrow and the rest of the contenders for a SL spot spent their £300k on seasoned, good pro's with the aim of ticking the box - Fax & Barrow ticked the box but had no real academy back up or a consistent line of youngsters being introduced to the 1st team to prepare them for games at a higher level.

Widnes ticked the box while having a youth structure in place - one which proved as good as and more often than not better than most Superleague clubs last season.

Some of these youngsters were promoted to the 1st team squad and acquited themselves very well but ultimately if they are regularly playing against the older pro's then they will be taught a lesson or two along the way. It's called development.

Widnes spent/spend their £300k on a mixture of youth and experience and also invest heavily in the youth set up - a policy that will pay dividends in the long term. Other clubs spending their £300k on older pro's and decent players at Champonship level would have a more difficult job in building a competitive SL side as they will have pretty much no 1st teamers to take to SL and also no youth set up to provide sustainability in the longer term.

Widnes will not have to build from scratch whereas other clubs pretty much would have to.

How is that? Because it produced more players? What level are those players playing at now? Which SuperLeague clubs in particular are you talking about?

I'm not saying that widnes don't have a good youth structure but I've seen it posted a few times that it is some sort of wonderful example of the concept without anything to back it up. Until it starts producing SL quality players then you cannot sensibly compare it to SL clubs.

He mentions 'last season' which would infer on the pitch performances. Your right the key is bringing players through but the way the academy performs can't be completely overlooked too.

Also how do you define SL quality? Just a player in a SL squad playing say 5 games a year? Or someone who is actually a first teamers who makes a big contribution to the side? E.g. Is Lee Mitchell SL quality just because the club he came through at are in SL? Are the likes of Craven & Flynn at Widnes nit because they came through our academy?

Quote: Ian 77 Redux "How is that? Because it produced more players? What level are those players playing at now? Which SuperLeague clubs in particular are you talking about? I'm not saying that widnes don't have a good youth structure but I've seen it posted a few times that it is some sort of wonderful example of the concept without anything to back it up. Until it starts producing SL quality players then you cannot sensibly compare it to SL clubs.'" www.therfl.co.uk/matchday/results The results in the link suggest that we are producing as good, if not better quality youngsters than Superleague clubs. You are right to suggest that the proof of the pudding is how far these kids go but as these results prove, we are punching above our weight in such exalted company. It will take some time to see whether these youngsters make it in Superleague but that is what the structure is about - producing youngsters who will develop into SL standard players and the club have done it in such a way that these kids will be ready when Widnes are in SL. That's pretty good structured development if you ask me. P.S. Widnes have also produced Steve Nash who played for Salford in SL (admittedly now back in the championship), Adam Sidlow and a certain Richie Myler - not just SL quality but England quality .

Quote: Ian 77 Redux "How is that? Because it produced more players? What level are those players playing at now? Which SuperLeague clubs in particular are you talking about? I'm not saying that widnes don't have a good youth structure but I've seen it posted a few times that it is some sort of wonderful example of the concept without anything to back it up. Until it starts producing SL quality players then you cannot sensibly compare it to SL clubs.'" www.therfl.co.uk/matchday/results The results in the link suggest that we are producing as good, if not better quality youngsters than Superleague clubs. You are right to suggest that the proof of the pudding is how far these kids go but as these results prove, we are punching above our weight in such exalted company. It will take some time to see whether these youngsters make it in Superleague but that is what the structure is about - producing youngsters who will develop into SL standard players and the club have done it in such a way that these kids will be ready when Widnes are in SL. That's pretty good structured development if you ask me. P.S. Widnes have also produced Steve Nash who played for Salford in SL (admittedly now back in the championship), Adam Sidlow and a certain Richie Myler - not just SL quality but England quality .