Oh I agree it's not ideal but Mamo at FB with Ratch and Austin in halves would've given us a more potent attack IMO. Unfortunately our attack was clearly an afterthought around mid-season onwards.

I don't think Patton was the gamble...Austin unfit was the gamble. Austin fit and Patton were a match for Saints.
We'd have been cruising too, but for the indiscipline of Hill and Cooper especially.

Why do Cas,Saints,Wigan and others appear to have stronger squads than us? Is it because they are not obsessed by star players but spend money more smartly across their squads and have adventurous coaches who get the best out of them.
Price has failed to do that not allowing the halves to play with freedom. The gametime given to Siti remains a mystery and allowing Harvey Livett to go out on loan for a season is baffling as is the signing of Burrell. He has a lot of questions to answer.

The CC win papered over the cracks, that have been there most of the season. We've looked average at best all season, we let far too many teams back in and most weeks started by chasing deficits from conceding early tries. We should have used the dispensation of KB to get another HB in our in hindsight blood a young lad, Patton is the local lad we all want to do well. He's had some good games this season but for every good one he has had a stinker (especially Cas in playoffs). I'd like to see Patton stay at the club, don't see him being here next season though with the lack of game time looming.

I wonder how much Price has to do with transfers and extensions. Some of these have been baffling.

See this where I find it hard to come to a conclusion. I think that our biggest problem has been recruitment. The quality of a squad at any one time will depend on the recruitment over about the past 5 or so years. Compared to those other clubs our recruitment has been poor since around 2012/13 so we are paying the price.

The comparison between us and Cas in recruitment over that period is especially revealing. There's no way Cas have a recruitment advantage over us in terms of money, size of club etc, and they were bottom of the league back in 2013 but look how they built themselves up. Also in that period they have on three(!) occasions had to deal with the loss of their best player (Chase, Clark, Solomona) and each time they rebuilt and came back better without them. Contrast that to what happened when we lost Morley, Hodgson, Briers.

I think our recruitment has been poor for a long time and this has left us with a shortage of big game gamebreakers and too many players who are regular starters that are average and would not get in the Saints/Wigan side. Surely I am not alone in that view...?

BUT...if you accept that view then how do you explain that in the past four seasons, we've made five finals (two under TS and three under Price), won a League Leaders Shield under TS and a Challenge Cup under Price. That suggests that we have had coaches who have actually overachieved - even if they have been involved in the poor recruitment decisions - they have managed to get an average squad punching quite high up.

If previous Wire coaches: Cullen, Van de Velde, Johnson, had been in charge of these players over the past few years, would we have had more success? I doubt it. We would have played more adventurous rugby under Cullen, but I don't think we would have been as well structured defensively. I do feel like in terms of being able to organise a team, TS and Price have been a big upgrade on what we had before.

I am still trying to figure out my real view on all this. I think it's that

a) Price is a similar calibre coach to TS, and neither should be underrated. Also remember Price has won a major trophy without the big gun players that TS had,

b) If you thought that TS was the kind of coach with a ceiling that would never get us to the next level, you probably have to put Price in the same category,

c) since the likes of Briers, Morley, Hodgson and the Monaghans retired, both coaches have been handcuffed by having an ordinary squad with a few highlights, rather than a top class squad. This goes much further than the coaches and we have to look at why the operations at the club that are set up to recruit experienced talent and bring through youth talent are not as good as our rivals.

Until we sort the problems in c) out I am not expecting a Grand Final win, not even if we bring in someone like Craig Bellamy or Ricky Stuart as our coach. But if we were say top 2 in the league in both recruitment and bringing through youth talent, then we could keep Price or bring back TS and have a fair chance of winning one.

Fascinating post Sal.
My thoughts still go back to us having a fairly decent squad compromised by the ineptness of some of our play. Why?
The appalling lack of creativity is a major cause of concern. Even in early season we were, in a number of games, heavily reliant on individual brilliance rather that a structures and cohesive plan or set of moves. I wouldn't mind so much if moves were tried and they didn't come off all the time but 5 drives and a kick and hope are not sufficient. I just do not know if Price is getting the best out of the players he has at his disposal. Last season offered hope and improvement but this season I just think we have gone backwards.

All very good points SC. I come back to the fact that for most of the season we have looked like we couldn’t string 2 passes together. The fact that that has got worse as the season progressed leads me back to the coaching.

I'm not sure about that. Ratchford, Austin and Clark are arguably the best in their positions in the comp. You add the likes of Charnley, Lineham, Goodwin, Hill, Cooper and Currie etc and on paper we have one of the best squads in the league.

On the back of the CC win, Price gets another year for me, but with the caveat that we play the rugby that were capable of. If nothing's changed by end of April 2020, SJM and SM should look elsewhere.

Ok - i've been wrong many times before but not always.
So SP has said time and time again that our problems are not difficult to fix but I've yet to see the fix.
There's virtually no team creativity in attack - we've looked bereft of ideas and had to rely on one or two moments of brilliance (more often than not from Daryl).
Bringing Widdop in will have a positive effect BUT there has to be attacking structure - not just 5 drives and a kick - to go with flair.
Don't get me started on the rest of the recruitment / retention though.

I wonder what Poweĺl, Ward and Watson would be able to do with this squad, or with the money that our coaches have had over the last few years....

We are on the same page fez. Previously I’ve been one of the last to suggest a change of coach, bit odd to find myself in the vanguard.

Sure, "one of the best squads in the league", with guys like those that you mention you have a great chance of finishing top 5 season after season.

But there is a difference between them and the Leeds players that I mentioned before, when it comes to winning Grand Finals. There are good players and there are relentless winners.

Does any team have a side full of relentless winners these days though?

On thread, I will hold my hands up as being wrong before but I have no faith at all that Steve price is the man to turn us around. The performances over the second half of last season(barring the semi and the final) were the worst in my whole time supporting wire. Topped even the rocket Rodwell era.

Aaaarrrggg nooooooo he said it and I haven't got my therapist on speed dial any more. I can hear them coming now they're at the front door they're in the house Dale Laughton, Matt Sturm and Steve Anderson at the helm .... where's my emergency Harvey's Bristol Cream make it go away mama

Apologies morrissey, I'd managed to forget about it myself until Steve reminded me. Still lots of social workers will be getting a few extra appointments at the moment, all helps the warrington economy I suppose.