Think most of us will agree that Bennie was lucky to get away with that one...but I find it amazing how may occasions there have been this year where Wigan fans have continually used this single incident to justify there own team's numerous instances of thuggery.

I've read shorter novels than Phuzzy's posts.

A classic case of the pot calling the kettle brunt if you ask me. We will just have to agree to differ. My previous post was meant to infer that Goodway was being a bit hypocritcal in criticising Les Boyd, as Goodway once flattened Cullen with a late shot to the head from behind and then stood on his hand as he walked past him.
In any case my comments were aimed at Warrington fans not people who have nothing better to do but surf other club's boards offering unwanted pearls of wisdom.

The sad thing is, it's going to take a VERY serious injury as a result of the aforementioned "cannonball tackle", before the shimdits at the RFL take action, and ban this cowardly act out of the game.

If these idiots continue to bury their heads in the sand, and ignore this practice, the only way round it is for refs to shout "held" earlier, and penalise as appropriate. Not an ideal scenario, as we all want the game to flow. Either way, somethings got to change.

Is it any wonder we're still light years behind the Aussies, when our PTBs take an age to complete, due to constant laying on or "stand up" tackles, which enables the cannonball man to come in and wreak havoc/thuggery.

It needs sorting

Pretty much spot on, Dita's.

As much as Wane is a gorilla, he's a successful gorilla. I don't want us to follow his tactics, but he's done it.

As I alluded to earlier in the thread, we need to toughen up, and maybe (to use an Aussie vernacular) "get a bit of mongrel about us".

As much as I hate to say it, we ARE a flat track bully.
Yes, this is the first time in five seasons that the Pies have beaten us at their place. It shouldn't have happened, but Wane reacted to the situation. We stood still, as we did in the GF.

As I type, I've got the Arsenal game on in the background, and we're becoming like them.
We're OK in beating the RL equivalent of West Brom (like Arsenal do), but when we've got a comfortable lead against a big boy, and they start to fightback, we go into our shells.

Come on, Wire. HARDEN UP.

What's most disappointing is that, on Thursday night especially, we should have knew what was coming - In the same way that Wane's half time team talk would have been very predictable, then, you would like to think, so should Tony Smith's have been.

Surely Smith would have warned them that Wigan would come out fighting, looking to needle Wire, basically put some fire into both the game and the crowd??...... If he did warn them, then the reaction he and we got was very timid and very disappointing - Once in a Grand Final, with so much at stake and nerves fraying, is pretty much forgivable, but again, 12 months later, against the same team, suggests a problem a bit deeper than the misfortune of losing a couple of players. It suggests a mental problem, the type that used to dog us back in the days of the 'Saints curse'.

I know its only twice against the Wiganers, but they have been the types of defeat that are difficult to just shrug off, simply because it gives Wigan an extra belief even when they are seemingly beaten.

It pains me to say, but I don't see us beating Wigan (or Leeds for that matter), if we meet in the forthcoming play offs.

I said that, the first ten minutes after half time was all about standing up to them, maybe scoring if the opportunity arose. We failed to do that, then the kicking game went ary.


Supposedly the ruling had been amended earlier this year following the grand final to make the offence less specific so you couldn't argue that the knees being taken the natural way was a cop out.

Attacking the standing leg of a tackled player is dangerous, take someone's legs out, they fall backwards, with some one around their ankles. Two fellas weighing them down on top, it's a very awkward fall potentially. Nothing natural or safe about it.

That's the thing. Smith (to me) seems like a bit TOO much of a nice bloke.
He's the kind of geezer that you'd go for a pint with, and enjoy his company.
Wane, on the other hand (again, to me), seems like a knuckle scraper, and if it wasn't for RL, he's probably be shuffling round the streets of Wigan in a 1990's shell suit, glowering at everyone, and then lumbering into The Moon Under The Water on a Monday morning with his "pals".

Again, we need to growl more

Maybe we do need to add a bit of steel gauntlet to our silk glove, but the fact remains that if Ben H had remained on the field and Monas hadn't thrown [ithat[/i pass we'd probably have won.

I do agree, however, that on a few occasions now there have been extended breaks in play and we have mentally switched off. That is a habit we need to address because it is symptomatic of lack of mental toughness and I think that is the crux of our problems. Everyone knew Wigan would throw the kitchen sink at us on the 2nd half resumption, and I'm sure TS did and warned the players accordingly, but we failed to react and handed the initiative to them.

It's lack of leadership on field, I'd be going with the model of a leadership team next year, 5 players in the squad with the responsibility for bollocking and geeing up people, you'd like to think players would do it as a matter of course, but it appears not so.

Now, you're bang on again

I'm sure Smith has got a ghetto blaster in the dressing room, and a few mins before we go out for the second half, he puts on Bob Marley's "Every little thing's gonna be all right" and the players walk out, thinking all in the garden's rosy.
WE NEED MORE STEEL
Now, I know the games moved on, and he was a bit of a knuckle scraper, himself, but the more mature ones on here, cast your minds back to when Tony Barrow was in charge, and we went into half time behind or the game was close. You could bet your last 50p that we'd come out and OBLITERATE the opposition, be it Wigan or Whitehaven.

We simply don't have that "oomph" anymore

The fact that Les Boyd as assistant was in the dressing room as well probably made for some, errm colourful half-time chats, but you're right it invariably worked! Of course, in Cullen, Mike Greg, Bob jackson etc. we also had plenty of players on the pitch not averse to laying the law down to colleagues.

Maybe it's something in the psyche of English sportsmen that they need a verbal pasting now and then. Using football as an example, Alex Ferguson, Brian Clough, Jose Mourinho, Kenny Dalglish etc. were not exactly shrinking violets; you don't achieve continued success at the highest level by ruling with fear, bullying players or screaming endlessly but the results of that quartet speak for themselves.