FORUMS > Warrington Wolves > New coach |
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| Quote: Shabino "Sorry but your squad is miles off Wigan and Saints.
Clark is probably the only international standard player you have...'"
Shaun Wane obviously doesn't think so.
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36947_1265606585.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_36947.jpg |
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "
All through Price's time here, we've had 3 consistent problems
I was, of course, being facetious with the Price comment in response to a bit of trolling.
But looking at the 3 problems you've listed about Price's tenure, I think the lack of leadership and inconsistency are where we differ to Saints and Wigan. There's a lack of depth in the forwards at all clubs, and usually only one' impact' forward who really makes a difference form the bench for each team.
Regarding the so-called weak squad fans of other clubs rattle on about, I really can't see where our core positions are so inferior(all internationals)
King/Charnley/Lineham vs Makinson/Grace/Bibby/Field (maybe Makinson stands out above the others)
Austin-Widdop vs Lomax-Fages/Hastings-Leuluai (arguably Austin-Widdop would shine in the Saints or Wigan line-ups)
Hill/Cooper/Philbin vs Walmsley/Amor/Lees/Singleton/Bullock et al
Clark vs Roby/Powell
Not really much in that. It's mentality, coaching and getting much more out of what is already a very good squad.
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| Well Cas are getting their backsides handed to them against HKR right now 22-6 halftime.
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| Quote: karetaker "Well Cas are getting their backsides handed to them against HKR right now 22-6 halftime.'"
I suspect there's a bit of worry right now in that dressing room. With all the departure announcements there's obviously something afoot behind the scenes and that's not a nice thing to have hanging over you. Of course, Cas won't be the only RL club clinging on right now. I do wonder how Super League will look at the start of next season...
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| Some game 33-32 to Cas O’Brien drop goal to win it
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| Quote: Shabino "Sorry but your squad is miles off Wigan and Saints.
Clark is probably the only international standard player you have...'"
Do Toby King, Mike Cooper, Chris Hill, Ben Currie, Jack Hughes and Joe Philbin all play a different sport?
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| Henderson getting a 2nd interview according to Casforum, wonder if he will take Briers has his assistant.
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| Quote: karetaker "Henderson getting a 2nd interview according to Casforum, wonder if he will take Briers has his assistant.'"
Yeah Briers is offski. Powell is bringing in his own staff.
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| Briers is George Riley's new research assistant
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Club Coach | 16269 | |
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| Quote: Lord Tony Smith "Do Toby King, Mike Cooper, Chris Hill, Ben Currie, Jack Hughes and Joe Philbin all play a different sport?'"
Not many of those guys are going to trouble the Aussies. Maybe Hill, Cooper and Currie 5 years ago.
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| Quote: easyWire "
Regarding the so-called weak squad fans of other clubs rattle on about, I really can't see where our core positions are so inferior(all internationals)
King/Charnley/Lineham vs Makinson/Grace/Bibby/Field (maybe Makinson stands out above the others)
Austin-Widdop vs Lomax-Fages/Hastings-Leuluai (arguably Austin-Widdop would shine in the Saints or Wigan line-ups)
Hill/Cooper/Philbin vs Walmsley/Amor/Lees/Singleton/Bullock et al
Clark vs Roby/Powell
Not really much in that. It's mentality, coaching and getting much more out of what is already a very good squad.'"
Those comparisons are quite revealing, especially if you think we are too predictable and should play a more open expansive game. We're quite one-paced in the backs compared to those other teams and if Powell wants to come in and start playing like he did at Castleford's peak he might go with Ashton at fullback, bring in one or two quicker wingers/centres.
Also saying Austin and Widdop would shine in the Saints or Wigan line ups...I don't think those are the type of signings Saints or Wigan would make. They are very much 'Warrington' halfbacks - big name NRL signings on big salaries who struggle to live up to them. Saints and Wigan tend to go more for home grown halfbacks or identify players who aren't the obvious names but are underrated.
The other point I could have added where we have been consistently poor during Price's time is with our kicking game, but this goes back further, since Briers retired.
These discussions about our squad vs the top teams remind me of where we were around 2006 with Cullen where people were trying to convince themselves that we had the team to compete ['look at all the internationals', when if we were honest, the other top teams wouldn't have taken any of them. Those guys were gone when we were actually a good team. It's the same now, Wigan and Saints aren't looking enviously at our squad wishing they had some of our players, none would be obvious starters other than Daryl Clark, the others would be squad depth.
There will be a thread on here at some point, like there is every year, saying the problem with Warrington is we accept less than what Wigan and Saints demand, and this kind of thing sums it up. Its like when every year we announce contract extensions and there's a swathe of comments saying great news, the future's bright the future's Wire! Or when we go on a winning run for a few weeks there will be a thread saying is Ratchford the best Warrington signing in the Super League era. Wigan and Saints operate in a different universe of expectations.
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| Also I'm not saying these players are bad. It just comes down to where you want to set your expectations. If you want Warrington to be a club that's there or thereabouts in the playoffs, has a chance of getting to Wembley every few years, maybe winning the odd trophy, like Hull and Cas, then our players are good enough to do that, so is Price as coach.
If you see the benchmark as winning the Grand Final then the expectations need to be reset in line with the clubs that actually win Grand Finals: Wigan, Saints and Leeds. It's not a coincidence that those three teams win every year.
The other problem with this hero-worship about our squad of great internationals is when we simultaneously complain that we don't give young players a shot like they do at Wigan or Saints. Well how can you justify dropping guys like Ratchford, Charnley, Lineham, King, Widdop, Austin, Hill, Clark, Cooper, Philbin, Currie....that's eleven starters locked in who Price can't drop, twelve when Inglis comes in. How do you give young talent a chance with all those internationals...
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "Also I'm not saying these players are bad. It just comes down to where you want to set your expectations. If you want Warrington to be a club that's there or thereabouts in the playoffs, has a chance of getting to Wembley every few years, maybe winning the odd trophy, like Hull and Cas, then our players are good enough to do that, so is Price as coach.
If you see the benchmark as winning the Grand Final then the expectations need to be reset in line with the clubs that actually win Grand Finals
I believe with injuries and knocks or whatever, there's always an opportunity for first team experience (same applies to Wigan or Saints youngsters breaking through). The issue is, when a player does well and earns a right to the shirt. It's what a coach is paid to do with picking the right 17 for each and every match we play. Like you've already explained, a coach is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, with some of us.
Question is with Thewliss and Wrench, rather than Ashton, is would they be able to play at SL level week in, week out, to enable a coach to be able to give them an extended run at this point in time. My opinion is that Ashton's there already, and his time will come, but more patience may be required with Wrench, Thewliss, Dean and others, to make it as a regular in Wire's SL gameday 17.
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "
The other problem with this hero-worship about our squad of great internationals is when we simultaneously complain that we don't give young players a shot like they do at Wigan or Saints. Well how can you justify dropping guys like Ratchford, Charnley, Lineham, King, Widdop, Austin, Hill, Clark, Cooper, Philbin, Currie....that's eleven starters locked in who Price can't drop, twelve when Inglis comes in. How do you give young talent a chance with all those internationals...'"
Maybe it’s the way I worded my post, but I absolutely am not hero-worshipping the players mentioned. What I am doing is refusing to hero-worship their equivalents at Saints or Wigan.
To put it another way, bring Hastings, Coote, Walmsley, Grace into this team would they have looked any better than the current Warrington core? Coote and Hastings would be ridiculed as NRL rejects who have the odd good game, Walmsley solid but not spectacular and Grace too small and weak in defence and under the high ball.
I really don’t think the playing roster is the biggest issue at Warrington.
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| The difference, I think, is that we have to actively recruit players. All of our players. There will be players in our 25 who are bit-part players, but have been brought in from other clubs on bigger money than they warrant.
Look at Morgan Smith, for example. He was never a star, but his wage would have been well above what he returned for the club. Same could be said about Matt Davis, Danny Walker, Jake Mamo, Marty Ashton, Sita, Keenan Brand etc. We have to buy squad fillers, whereas Saints and Wigan have their own, who are will be willing to play for them for less to fulfil the dream. It’s always cheaper to keep a player than to buy one.
Harry Smith will be on an interim contract, more than an academy kid, but not a ‘signed’ future star. Compare that with Walker, who was at a similar stage when we picked him up, who we had to compete for his signature.
We need to trust the youth, play them and stand by them. I’d argue that Robson is as effective as Jason Clark, or Doro comparable with Sita, or even Thewlis with Ashton (although very different players, I like Ashton, he’s electric, but I think Thewlis is a more rounded player and will make an excellent player given his chance).
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