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| Quote ="Lord Tony Smith"Have you ever watched Joe Bullock play?'"
We’re hitting the same point. Cooper is a great prop, we have a great prop, but we are letting him go and replacing him with lesser players.
The justification to date is that he isn’t committed fully, or is a bad apple. If that is true he shouldn’t be in the team. If it’s NOT true, I would like to understand why we are not offering a contract, of any value, to our only great prop.
We let go our other great prop and replace him with Bullock, who isn’t good enough to get in the 17, so you’ll understand my scepticism when trusting the current regime with recruiting front rowers. |
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| Quote ="Douglas Black"Is Cooper a bad apple or have fans added 2 and 2 to get 5? Powell doesn't see him as part of his future plans, Cooper is moving on. No big deal. We do need him for the rest of this year, though.'"
I think most seem to have come to the conclusion, rightly or wrongly, that the squad is full of bad apples and we’ve got a militant set of players with a chip on their shoulder.
Nothing to do with actual ability, coaching, team selection, or tactics, just a squad full of bad apples. |
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Cooper to agent “any chance you can get me out of here fast? I’ve been running my tripes to water and am being slagged off as a “bad apple”. Thanks”
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| Quote ="DAG"I think most seem to have come to the conclusion, rightly or wrongly, that the squad is full of bad apples and we’ve got a militant set of players with a chip on their shoulder.
Nothing to do with actual ability, coaching, team selection, or tactics, just a squad full of bad apples.'"
Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics in 2017 when we ended up the in the middle 8's?
Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics in 2019 when we went on a losing streak of 6 games when we had given up after winning the cup?
Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics that caused us to exit the play offs at the first hurdle 2019, 2020 and 2021?
Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics that caused a player to turn up to an international airport without a passport? |
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| International Star | 1916 | No
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| Quote ="Wires71"Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics in 2017 when we ended up the in the middle 8's? Coaching and team selection. Smith openly admits he had gotten stale, and at that point we weee reliant on scooting from dummy half to create anything. But for Hiku, there was no creativity in the team all told.
Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics in 2019 when we went on a losing streak of 6 games when we had given up after winning the cup? Coaching. Plan A worked a treat, Austin went off like a rocket but there was no plan b. That is broadly accepted.
Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics that caused us to exit the play offs at the first hurdle 2019, 2020 and 2021? Tough one, I think that is more of a mental resilience thing. Playoffs is a different game, as Leeds have demonstrated. It’s about who cracks first, and it’s us. I thought that by not offering Price new terms, that was what we were looking to address
Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics that caused a player to turn up to an international airport without a passport? Well that is human error. Toby King and Josh Charnley are guilty of similar this year by all accounts. But, I believe there is more to that, as the club would have booked the travel and gather passport information etc. if it was owing to being a limited period left on a passport, but it is still technically valid, then that could have been picked up by the admin staff. But still, human error.'" |
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| Player Coach | 336 | No
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| Quote ="Wires71"Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics in 2017 when we ended up the in the middle 8's?
Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics in 2019 when we went on a losing streak of 6 games when we had given up after winning the cup?
Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics that caused us to exit the play offs at the first hurdle 2019, 2020 and 2021?
Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics that caused a player to turn up to an international airport without a passport?'"
Just needed a couple of top class props to supplement the efforts of the over used and flogged Hill and Cooper, didn’t we? That seemed the general consensus around the 2019, 2020 and 2021 seasons, didn’t it?
As for 2017, well Tony Smith was the problem then wasn’t he? The day to day coaching done by Agar while Smith took a back seat. Stale, needed time out of the game and to recharge the batteries, didn’t he?
Props. Buy some props to help Hill and Cooper they begged for so long. The club failed to deliver on that front year after year. Now we’ve gone from being there or there abouts, to relegation fodder and it’s all down to attitude, application and a bunch of bad apples. |
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| Player Coach | 336 | No
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| Quote ="Wires71"Was it bad coaching, team selection, or tactics in 2017 when we ended up the in the middle 8's? '"
You wanted Smith gone around that time too didn’t you? So yes, I guess you could say it was to do with the coaching side of things back then that were the issues if you want to be consistent in your criticisms of Smith from back then. |
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| Quote ="DAG"You wanted Smith gone around that time too didn’t you? So yes, I guess you could say it was to do with the coaching side of things back then that were the issues if you want to be consistent in your criticisms of Smith from back then.'"
Yes I did. I saw we were drifting further away from winning a GF rather than moving towards it.
I wanted Smith to leave from 2017 onwards (7 years in the job, should have gone earlier really)
Price from October 2019 onwards (2 years in the job)
Powell has been in post 16 games. |
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| Quote ="Wires71"
Powell has been in post 16 games.'"
And we've played well twice, but only won one of those games.
I wouldn't sack him by the way. |
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| Quote ="Wires71"Yes I did. I saw we were drifting further away from winning a GF rather than moving towards it.
I wanted Smith to leave from 2017 onwards (7 years in the job, should have gone earlier really)
Price from October 2019 onwards (2 years in the job)
Powell has been in post 16 games.'"
But, Smith won about 10 of his first 16, including a cup run. Powell won 3 in a row in February, then TWO since. It’s June. |
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#KissKamOut
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| Quote ="Barbed Wire"But, Smith won about 10 of his first 16, including a cup run. Powell won 3 in a row in February, then TWO since. It’s June.'"
Someone somewhere posted about smiths first season in charge)(09)
He got lots of breathing room during thst transition period as pre season had been ed up goodstyle by James lower and his boxer mate conditioner.
We were worlds apart in 2010 |
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| Quote ="Barbed Wire"But, Smith won about 10 of his first 16, including a cup run. Powell won 3 in a row in February, then TWO since. It’s June.'"
True. Compare the squad then to now though.
I don't think anyone is saying "Keep Powell" on the basis of the performances this year. They are doing so on the basis that they a) believe he is a good coach that plays good rugby b) is up against it with a poorly balanced squad c) is the first coach I can remember with the balls to question and try to change our culture. d) accept it will take more than 16 games to change things.
To my mind there is no harm in being patient to see what happens. We were not winning anything this season anyway and I don't believe there is a realistic possibility of relegation. Others may disagree and that is what makes the world go round. |
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Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"Someone somewhere posted about smiths first season in charge)(09)
He got lots of breathing room during thst transition period as pre season had been loved up goodstyle by James lower and his boxer mate conditioner.
We were worlds apart in 2010'"
People forget this game in early 2009. London 60 - 8 Wire.
www.loverugbyleague.com/stats/ma ... on-wolves/
As Smith said at the time "As far as I am concerned we have hit the lowest point, but sometimes you have to reach that to start climbing again,"
"The players have to make a choice. They can either go and sulk or stick with me and try to rectify things. The scoreboard rarely lies and we were comfortably second-best today."
We went on to win the Challenge Cup later that season. |
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Quote ="Fantastic Mr Cat"Someone somewhere posted about smiths first season in charge)(09)
He got lots of breathing room during thst transition period as pre season had been loved up goodstyle by James lower and his boxer mate conditioner.
We were worlds apart in 2010'"
People forget this game in early 2009. London 60 - 8 Wire.
www.loverugbyleague.com/stats/ma ... on-wolves/
As Smith said at the time "As far as I am concerned we have hit the lowest point, but sometimes you have to reach that to start climbing again,"
"The players have to make a choice. They can either go and sulk or stick with me and try to rectify things. The scoreboard rarely lies and we were comfortably second-best today."
We went on to win the Challenge Cup later that season. | |
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| Quote ="DallasMead2"#KissKamOut'"
The constant repetition of this may be doing wonders for your post count, but it isn’t doing much for your reputation. |
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Quote ="Wires71"People forget this game in early 2009. London 60 - 8 Wire.
www.loverugbyleague.com/stats/ma ... on-wolves/
As Smith said at the time "As far as I am concerned we have hit the lowest point, but sometimes you have to reach that to start climbing again,"
"The players have to make a choice. They can either go and sulk or stick with me and try to rectify things. The scoreboard rarely lies and we were comfortably second-best today."
We went on to win the Challenge Cup later that season.'"
Smith inherited a basket case without any glimmer of success since the early 90’s. He was out third coach in 7 or 8 months and didn’t have the benefit of a pre-season in that period.
He walked in the door, to the demotion of the man who was to act as his assistant and got better results. We have had Powell as the coach elect since March(approx) of last year, months of planning and preparing for the squad he would have and could add to and take away. He had a full pre-season without a major international drain. Hit the ground running with 3 out of 3 and then the wheels have fell off.
He has had 2 opportunities (I think) to have ‘mini pre-seasons’ when we don’t have fixtures, to hard-reset the team, which is actually quite important rather than just recovery into prep mid-week. Smith didn’t get that as he took us to Wembley. And yet now, we have regressed, week on week. I’m biased, because I thoroughly enjoyed Smith’s 2009-2016 era and I have a respect and loyalty to him, but it is incomparable between the impact of the two coaches.
The most optimism I have felt since March is reading that Wane is hoping that getting our 5 guys into a different environment might help them to enjoy their rugby again and take it back to their club. I just hope Wane is right and he can get some spirit into those 5 guys and they can bring that back in to our team and use it as a springboard.
I don’t want us to fail, not at all. But, I can’t help but watch on with agony as great players leave only to be replaced by journeymen, in the hope of progression. |
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Quote ="Wires71"People forget this game in early 2009. London 60 - 8 Wire.
www.loverugbyleague.com/stats/ma ... on-wolves/
As Smith said at the time "As far as I am concerned we have hit the lowest point, but sometimes you have to reach that to start climbing again,"
"The players have to make a choice. They can either go and sulk or stick with me and try to rectify things. The scoreboard rarely lies and we were comfortably second-best today."
We went on to win the Challenge Cup later that season.'"
Smith inherited a basket case without any glimmer of success since the early 90’s. He was out third coach in 7 or 8 months and didn’t have the benefit of a pre-season in that period.
He walked in the door, to the demotion of the man who was to act as his assistant and got better results. We have had Powell as the coach elect since March(approx) of last year, months of planning and preparing for the squad he would have and could add to and take away. He had a full pre-season without a major international drain. Hit the ground running with 3 out of 3 and then the wheels have fell off.
He has had 2 opportunities (I think) to have ‘mini pre-seasons’ when we don’t have fixtures, to hard-reset the team, which is actually quite important rather than just recovery into prep mid-week. Smith didn’t get that as he took us to Wembley. And yet now, we have regressed, week on week. I’m biased, because I thoroughly enjoyed Smith’s 2009-2016 era and I have a respect and loyalty to him, but it is incomparable between the impact of the two coaches.
The most optimism I have felt since March is reading that Wane is hoping that getting our 5 guys into a different environment might help them to enjoy their rugby again and take it back to their club. I just hope Wane is right and he can get some spirit into those 5 guys and they can bring that back in to our team and use it as a springboard.
I don’t want us to fail, not at all. But, I can’t help but watch on with agony as great players leave only to be replaced by journeymen, in the hope of progression. | |
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| Quote ="Captain Hook"The constant repetition of this may be doing wonders for your post count, but it isn’t doing much for your reputation.'"
Not particularly concerned about that chief tbh. |
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| International Star | 4716 | No
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| Quote ="DallasMead2"Not particularly concerned about that chief tbh.'"
can we just take it as read that it’s all Karl’s fault in your view to save you from having to repeat yourself? |
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| Quote ="Captain Hook"can we just take it as read that it’s all Karl’s fault in your view to save you from having to repeat yourself?'"
Take whatever you like mate. |
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| Quote ="DallasMead2"Take whatever you like mate.'"
In which case I prefer “chief” to “mate” but “Captain” is best of all. |
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| Quote ="Captain Hook"In which case I prefer “chief” to “mate” but “Captain” is best of all.'"
No worries chief captain. |
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| Quote ="DallasMead2"No worries chief captain.'"
Even betterer. |
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| Quote ="Barbed Wire"Smith inherited a basket case without any glimmer of success since the early 90’s. He was out third coach in 7 or 8 months and didn’t have the benefit of a pre-season in that period.
He walked in the door, to the demotion of the man who was to act as his assistant and got better results. We have had Powell as the coach elect since March(approx) of last year, months of planning and preparing for the squad he would have and could add to and take away. He had a full pre-season without a major international drain. Hit the ground running with 3 out of 3 and then the wheels have fell off.
He has had 2 opportunities (I think) to have ‘mini pre-seasons’ when we don’t have fixtures, to hard-reset the team, which is actually quite important rather than just recovery into prep mid-week. Smith didn’t get that as he took us to Wembley. And yet now, we have regressed, week on week. I’m biased, because I thoroughly enjoyed Smith’s 2009-2016 era and I have a respect and loyalty to him, but it is incomparable between the impact of the two coaches. '"
I am also a hardcore Smith loyalist but he did inherit a different situation. He had a squad which was full of very talented players and had just had a bad coaching situation as Cullen's last year was a year too long especially given the other stuff he had to deal with at the time, and Jimmy Lowes was not an SL standard head coach. Powell has inherited a team that had gone stagnant and needed an overhaul.
If TS came back to coach us now, I doubt he would have the same impact he did in 2009.
However, its interesting to consider where we would be if we had just kept on with TS right through and not had Price or Powell. I think it was time for both parties to move on at the end of 2017, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had ended up with a better win-loss record since then if TS had stayed, than what we have had under Price and Powell. |
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"I am also a hardcore Smith loyalist but he did inherit a different situation. He had a squad which was full of very talented players and had just had a bad coaching situation as Cullen's last year was a year too long especially given the other stuff he had to deal with at the time, and Jimmy Lowes was not an SL standard head coach. Powell has inherited a team that had gone stagnant and needed an overhaul.
If TS came back to coach us now, I doubt he would have the same impact he did in 2009.
However, its interesting to consider where we would be if we had just kept on with TS right through and not had Price or Powell. I think it was time for both parties to move on at the end of 2017, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had ended up with a better win-loss record since then if TS had stayed, than what we have had under Price and Powell.'"
In 2017 we were in the middle 8s after a dismal season. In 2018 we were in the Challenge Cup and Grand Finals. Do you think that if TS had stayed we would have had the same turnaround? |
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"I am also a hardcore Smith loyalist but he did inherit a different situation. He had a squad which was full of very talented players and had just had a bad coaching situation as Cullen's last year was a year too long especially given the other stuff he had to deal with at the time, and Jimmy Lowes was not an SL standard head coach. Powell has inherited a team that had gone stagnant and needed an overhaul.
If TS came back to coach us now, I doubt he would have the same impact he did in 2009.
However, its interesting to consider where we would be if we had just kept on with TS right through and not had Price or Powell. I think it was time for both parties to move on at the end of 2017, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had ended up with a better win-loss record since then if TS had stayed, than what we have had under Price and Powell.'"
Undoubtedly the right time for him to move on.
Re: squad comparisons, 2009 was very similar but I think people are underestimating the value of the current squad. At the point of signing, Widdop and Williams were star halfbacks. Stars. Ratchford, Cooper, Clark, Currie, Philbin are/until recently were regulars in England squads. Hughes, Charnley, King and Matautia are in and around rep squads in recent history, but not regulars.
That’s every starting squad number other than 5 Ashton and 12 Holmes.
Ashton, Walker, Holmes and Mulhearn have been in Knights squads. From number 1 a 19, every one of them is or was recently an international standard player outside of Bullock, Davis and Magoulias. Powell signed 2 of those three.
I can’t accept that these players have lost all of their ability, I won’t accept that they have lost all of the lessons that they picked up playing with and for international standard coaches and players. The squad is more than good enough to compete. Can the coach not get the best out of them, or is it to be believed that there has been an ability and effort vacuum? |
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