FORUMS > Warrington Wolves > Daryl Powell |
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| Perhaps some of these imports just see us a a lucrative contract for minimal effort ,in other words money for old rope.
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Club Coach | 16271 | |
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Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
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| Quote: Wires71 "How do you think this "poor recruitment" comes about ?
Is it ...
1. We see truly good players but cannot get them ie) that we cannot persuade the top players without offering a marquee wage
2. We see good players but our squad is so poorly balanced cap value wise we cannot afford them
3. We cannot see good players
4. We think average players are good players.
5. We recruit good players but they don't deliver their previous form consistently.
6. We think our current players are good and no need to replace them.
I think it's a case of 1, 2, 5. Top players will naturally want to go to historically top sides so they can win something. ie) If Saints and us are in for a player it is likely they will chose Saints unless we make an offer they cannot refuse which causes 2.'"
All of those would seem valid but there has been a definite change in the post Gatcliffe era.
in the mid 2000s to early 2010s our recruitment involved:
a) Genuine superstars who any club in the world would have liked to attract, and who lived up to their big expectations (Gleeson, Morley, Monaghan, King, Hodgson)
b) Players with a reputation of good rather than superstar but whose performance was right up with the superstars (Hicks, Carvell, Louis Anderson, Higham)
c) Young players with promise who turned out to be far better than we expected (Westwood, Bridge, Grix, Harrison, Hill....going back further you could include Briers although he was an outlier in an era of generally crap recruitment!)
d) Some misses: players who had a big reputation and or had won stuff at other clubs, who didn't deliver what we expected (Swann, Rauhihi, Reardon, Cardiss, Vinnie Anderson).
As we transition from the late Cullen era into the early TS era you see category d drop off and more signings in a and b.
But in the later TS era (post Gatcliffe) we had a reversal of that trend. We're not signing the a/b/c's any more, we're signing a lot of d's.
This suggests to me that we're not identifying the right players, we're going for names that seem like they have done well elsewhere and hoping they translate/improve with us. But how many of them actually do? How many of the players we have signed in recent years do you say "well he improved at Warrington compared to what he was with his previous club"?
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Player Coach | 3262 | |
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Jan 2008 | 17 years | |
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| We're five games in. Powell has improved every club he's been at with little resources. We haven't lost all five, but we've stuttered to 3/5 and we're in the top half of the table. How did our previous two coaches do in their first five games?
No doubt we don't have a squad with as much quality as the one TS inherited, but then no club does in 2022. And the players simply aren't available out there. We have to make do with the best that we can sign, and start producing adequate numbers of our own academy players. We are well on our way to doing the latter, and I seriously can't remember a time when we had so many homegrown players who seem to slot straight into the first team. It was stated Powell was brought in for this reason, because we know we can't just go out and sign NRL superstars anymore (not that it really worked anyway) and Powell has a record of turning good young players into great ones.
Of course, I'm not happy with performances so far (especially up front), but I'm prepared to give it more than five games. And I don't think the cup is a write off at all, even if the big one seems unrealistic this year. Also, it was only a couple of weeks ago 2nd-placed Wigan seemed a class above. They've just scraped past Toulouse and been thrashed by Cats.
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Club Captain | 4682 | |
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Jul 2015 | 9 years | |
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| Quote: Wires71 "Quite a high number of games played though for "squad fillers". In bold the players who made more than 1/2 seasons worth of appearances.
Matthew Russell 96
Roy Asotasi 59
Sitaleki Akauola 44
Anthony England 37
Lama Tasi 18
Jordan Cox (RIP) 18
Dom Crosby 17
Ryan Bailey 15
Ben Pomeroy 12
Gary Wheeler 10
Luther Burrell 7
Matty Smith 5
Leilani Latu 3
Matty Blythe 3'"
I would say after the first 4 definitely squad fillers. England actually did alright and we have had a lot worse than Russell
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Player Coach | 2407 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2009 | 16 years | |
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "All of those would seem valid but there has been a definite change in the post Gatcliffe era.
in the mid 2000s to early 2010s our recruitment involved
The simple fact is that those calibre of players just aren't available to sign anymore. Saints fans claim Morgan Knowles is the best back rower in super league(and I won't argue with that). But he wouldn't have got on the bench for us between 2010-13.
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Club Captain | 902 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2020 | 5 years | |
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| Quote: Wires71 "Well said. Tony Smith took time to get the side into shape and got rid of high profile players (Gleeson) and dropped others (Briers).
No more "filler" signings or "gamble" or "last chance saloons". Less is more. Go for quality.
Some atrocious singings since 2014 (start of our demise)
Roy Asotasi
Anthony England
Matthew Russell
Gary Wheeler
Ryan Bailey
Ben Pomeroy
Dom Crosby
Jordan Cox (RIP)
Matty Blythe
Sitaleki Akoula
Matty Smith
Lama Tasi
Leilani Latu
Luther Burrell
Quality players lost since 2014
Lee Briers
Ritchie Myler
Michael Monaghan
Brett Hodgson
Ben Westwood
Paul Wood
Ryan Atkins
Simon Grix
Trent Waterhouse'"
Agreed mate, but you’ve missed 2 of the very worst out there…..Inglis and Tyrone Roberts. Truly terrible.
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International Star | 1897 | No Team Selected |
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Oct 2012 | 12 years | |
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "All of those would seem valid but there has been a definite change in the post Gatcliffe era.
in the mid 2000s to early 2010s our recruitment involved
Couldn’t agree more.
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| Quote: DallasMead2 "Agreed mate, but you’ve missed 2 of the very worst out there…..Inglis and Tyrone Roberts. Truly terrible.'"
I'll throw this one out here again to the roberts haters, who took us to a challenge up and grand final in 2018?
Cos both ratchford and kevin brown were both called rotten and not good enough as well. so [isomeone[/i must have done something...
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "All of those would seem valid but there has been a definite change in the post Gatcliffe era.
in the mid 2000s to early 2010s our recruitment involveda) Genuine superstars who any club in the world would have liked to attract, and who lived up to their big expectations (Gleeson, Morley, Monaghan, King, Hodgson)
b) Players with a reputation of good rather than superstar but whose performance was right up with the superstars (Hicks, Carvell, Louis Anderson, Higham)
c) Young players with promise who turned out to be far better than we expected (Westwood, Bridge, Grix, Harrison, Hill....going back further you could include Briers although he was an outlier in an era of generally crap recruitment!)
d) Some misses
Just regarding that point, you need to take into account the shift in the sport and the world financially at that point.
we signed the 4 nrl players for 2008 and on 4 year contracts (initially) as part of the franchising sequence, which were able to do with the strength of the pound against the aussie dollar, aided by the image rights loophole that we were terrorized over and when it went to court, apparently we weren't; able to give the overseas players a chunk of money tax free, even monaghan said at the time it was very disapointing he wasn't going to be getting the money they said they would be, and there were queries about him and kingy leaving (after their form had improved).
And that wasn't just us, that affected the entire league, as demonstrated by the ditching of the exiles team when they realised in 2014 most of the overseas players in SL were dross. QUICK ADDITION TO THIS -THIS WAS WHY THE MARQUEE EXEMPTION WAS INTRODUCED
Granted we still signed some nrl players under smith in this period, but overlapping sims and asotasi aside it wasn't the same as previously.
QU
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5510 | |
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Apr 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Quote: DallasMead2 "Quote: DallasMead2 "Well said. Tony Smith took time to get the side into shape and got rid of high profile players (Gleeson) and dropped others (Briers).
No more "filler" signings or "gamble" or "last chance saloons". Less is more. Go for quality.
Some atrocious singings since 2014 (start of our demise)
Roy Asotasi
Anthony England
Matthew Russell
Gary Wheeler
Ryan Bailey
Ben Pomeroy
Dom Crosby
Jordan Cox (RIP)
Matty Blythe
Sitaleki Akoula
Matty Smith
Lama Tasi
Leilani Latu
Luther Burrell
Quality players lost since 2014
Lee Briers
Ritchie Myler
Michael Monaghan
Brett Hodgson
Ben Westwood
Paul Wood
Ryan Atkins
Simon Grix
Trent Waterhouse'"
Agreed mate, but you’ve missed 2 of the very worst out there…..Inglis and Tyrone Roberts. Truly terrible.'"
And let's not forget the perma-injured Mitchell Dodds & the failed experiment of Luther Burrell.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 14136 | |
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Jun 2006 | 18 years | |
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| Quote: ninearches "And let's not forget the perma-injured Mitchell Dodds & the failed experiment of Luther Burrell.'"
I left off Dodds as the broken leg was very unfortunate and we couldn't foresee that. Burrell is on the list though.
What I believe to be successful signings since 2014 (signings that had a significant positive impact on the teams' performance)
2014 - none
2015 - Daryl Clark
2016 - Gidley, Lineham, Westerman
2017 - Cooper, Hiku, (Brown?)
2018 - Charnley, Murdoch-Masilla, Goodwyn
2019 - Austin, Walker, Mamo
2020 - Ashton, Widdop
2021 - Williams
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Rank | Posts | Team |
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Jun 2006 | 18 years | |
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "How many of the players we have signed in recent years do you say "well he improved at Warrington compared to what he was with his previous club"?'"
I'm struggling to think of any. Maybe Mamo and Walker?
We sign a lot of "projects" or "potential" only for them to be out of the door without extension. You would think out of the recent list we would get 1 or 2 first teamers?
Savelio
Brand
Shelford
Johnson (Luis)
Kibula
Robson*
Doro*
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| Quote: Fantastic Mr Catpiss "I'll throw this one out here again to the roberts haters, who took us to a challenge up and grand final in 2018?
Cos both ratchford and kevin brown were both called rotten and not good enough as well. so [isomeone[/i must have done something...'"
Well if you think Tyrone was the key to getting us to those 2 finals you get your head tested
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| Quote: sir adrian morley "Well if you think Tyrone was the key to getting us to those 2 finals you get your head tested'"
who was then?
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| I'm even more worried now. It's getting worse not better
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