Well a club with one excellent prop in Hill, an injured Ben Westwood, an injured Ben Harrison, an okay Sims and some dross with Bailey and Cox and then young lads shouldn't be expecting to win anything. If we did then our expectations were unrealsistic. We had no pace in the forwards, a lack of aggression, lack of weight. We didn't have, and still don't, any true decent centres who create space and good passes for the wingers neither.

At the start of last season I expected to challenge for around 4th/5th and I never thought about any finals. I thought we were well short.

We have a stronger heavier more aggressive pack this year, still no pace in there though. And still have no true centres. And a right mish-mash of backs who are okay in a range of positions but masters of none!

Wigan and Cas look much better than we do on paper. So I, again don't expect us to win anything this season, and I reckon we'll finish 3rd-5th.

I'd have smith back at Leeds tomorrow please swap for McDermott anyone?

What always amuses me is some of those who have such a "accept nothing less than winning" mentality are the same types of old guard fan who will have us believe that the great team of the 80s with Les Boyd, Mike Gregory and co in, was some kind of benchmark of greatness.

In reality, that team finished 3rd and 4th a couple of times but for much of the 1980s we were a mid table side that would get to the occasional final or semi final and lose. It wasn't just Wigan that were better than us though, we were behind the likes of Widnes and Saints.

Now maybe back in the old days Warrington was not as big a club as it is today and so that 80s team was seen as plucky mid-table heroes who could front up and give the big teams a spirited fight even if they ended up defeated.

But I think if you have such high standards that anything less than the title is a failure then you shouldn't be glorifying that Warrington team you should be telling us about Shaun Edwards, Ellery Hanley, guys who actually were relentless winners.

How did Kevin play last night

Will I think this season will bring you silverware

Again, I'll repeat it was the club's expectations. Plenty of comments from TS and players pre 2016 season about the targets.

Brian McDermott came out and said his players were targeting all 3 trophies this year. I think that tells you all you need to know about pre-season comments.

After the time and investment Tony Smith has had at his disposal, we should have the best squad in the competition... if Cas and Wigan have far better teams on paper then he should probably leave now.

Absolutely no excuses for Smith.

Shouldn't the same be said, then, of Saints, Wigan and Leeds? All four of us can't win SL at the same time. Would that it were so simple just to acquire the best squad in the competition. The Chris Sandow story, by itself, gives the lie to that.

All of them have won the Grand final under Smith reign though.

Except we have invested more money than them 3 teams, and they're the ones who have won at least 1 grand final since Smith took over.

Don't really see your point anyway... the poster I replied to made out that our squad is far weaker than Wigans and castlefords. I said if it was, Smith should leave because he has invested very poorly.

I don't know if Patton was injured during the GF but i think Smith's biggest boo boo was probably substituting Sandow for Patton. Given what happened later in the year maybe Sandow was not fully committed to playing that day.

I think Smiths biggest Boo Boo was not taking the 2 points on offer in the first half of the first G/F against Wigan .

He would probably tell you that too .

Wigan win another major title under Shaun Wane.

I know he probably seems like Wigan through and through but money talks.

Would you accept an increase in season ticket prices if it meant we were able to afford an offer to Wane that would turn his head and get him on board at Warrington for 2018?

If Smith was to leave yes. I wouldn't sack Smith for him as he doesn't deserve to be sacked and I don't think Moran would. He is here for how long he wants to be IMO.