Our problem is we've been treading water for a couple of years, a few seasons ago we came top of the league, 13 points ahead of Leeds, since then we've let go of international players and given youth a chance, Leeds have been drafting in better players and here we are a few seasons down the line and their team is the best in the league and ours is getting by. I think now in hindsight the penny has dropped with the management and we are all over any decent player going. I'd write off this season but a couple of fresh forwards we could be the best again

did you see lineham at cas

No and I believe he had a shocker but from what I've seen of him generally, he's a big upgrade

Penny is a winger.
At the moment, he's our only winger with winger's pace. He has a proven scoring rate. Yes, he makes mistakes, as does EVERY winger in RL

Russell is a Full Back, not a winger
(not that I've got anything against him), but Lineham (according to Hessel Roader...a Hull fan, on this site today) has had a stinker, v Cas.

After tonight, Penny should be the least of your scapegoat issues

well said..penny tried his socks off and plays with plenty of passion pride or whatever..look at most of that lot tonight and compare them to pennys efforts,,as the duck said he scored 80% of our points tonight and they needed scoring...our best player tonight by a mile..and he still gets slagged off

He just isn't big enough, its a shame because he is exciting to watch, But in today's super league your wingers are almost part of the forward pack, it is essential they're able to make good metres from dummy half to help set the platform, and he just doesn't have the physicality to do this, the likes of Hall and Briscoe would man handle him. This lack of size also hurts him defensively.

There is a reason the majority of NRL wingers are huge,and the shorter ones tend to be stocky/or very smart (Penny is neither)

I'm not scapegoating him for tonight's game at all. I agree he was one of our better performers. I just don't think he's good enough generally for us and where we should be.

Injuries to the forwards meant we never had a chance tonight and 13 'spirit of penny's' wouldn't have gotten us a win either as the quality wasnt there.

I think I must have been watching a different game or something. Everyone is talking about the poor performances (true) because the players didn't care (false). Watch the players! Look at the effort they are putting in, and tell me they don't care. What they are is completely exhausted! We were run off the park by an incredible Leeds side, after how many weeks of having less than 17 fully fit players to choose from every week? Not only are we missing the best part of a dozen right now, we had three straight back from injuries, a few more carrying them (Philbin had his leg strapped up, I think Monaghan and Ratchford were too), England went off early on... The players who haven't been injured are dead on their feet, not just from Leeds possession but from weeks of having to pick up the slack from the gaps we've had. Did Hill get taken off earlier for a break, or did he actually play the entire first 67 minutes? He seemed to be running and tackling like he was still playing up front.

You can see it in their faces how much they are trying, but they're shattered from weeks of injuries and disappointment and knowing that we're going to struggle to make the playoffs at all. Obviously this doesn't excuse the poor (or lack of) attacking play we've had, that's a different problem and Sandow looks good to help fix that. We have our problems but lashing out at the entire team and coach too, given the circumstances, is just ridiculous.

Hill did play the first 67 minutes, & was probably only pulled off when the game was gone

its been like this for the majority of the season..just like tonight our performances this season have just not been good enough i.e hull and cas at home widnes away to name 3.time for a really big clear out..for a start myler( thank god hes going ) england not good enough asotasi simply bilge atkins bone idle obrien hunslet beckons joel to slow but thanks for your efforts..get shut of those for starters

You were always going to struggle without Westwood and Harrison.
I thought Sandow showed some good touches and when fit will be a great signing for you.
Clark blew hot and cold and is a shadow of his last years form.
Ratchford alongside Sandow could be a good pairing.
Penny for me was your best player and at least kept trying.
On another note we have lost Aiton with a broken arm which is a major loss for us.

wish i was pulled off after the game was gone.. :

Also, can't help but think that Westwoods incident at Cas might have put the nail in the coffin for our season. His work rate, go forward and experience has been badly missed the last 2 games.

Good game to lose ,by fewer points would've been nice but,as was always going to be the case the team looked disjointed ,we are basically putting out a different team each week ,hopefully they can click better against Cas because that is a must win game ,tonight wasn't