Ah yes the mighty Salford! The last two games were the true acid test and we've blown it. True adversity and we couldn't match either for intensity or desire. Powell had no answers on his post match interview. If we've been outmatched in intensity now, God help us in September.

The mighty Salford and the mighty Hull Kr did us last year. The mighty Hull, the Mighty Hull Kr and the mighty hudds (i think) did us in the first round of the playoffs when we were making it.

I want to see us,.at full quota, tested.. that's when we'll know where we're at.

As stated, our B team, in the playoffs aint up to much. Our A team on the other hand.....

We've been handed our s on a silver platter by a good workman like Wigan team and a saints reserve team the Wigan game I can take but that tonight when so many experienced players vanished I cannot.. challenge cup may be our best opportunity for silverware again..

I mean people call Saints the bottlers and they have won four Grand Finals in a row so don't get too hung up about it.

You'd never see this year's Saints and Wigan teams losing to two teams below them in the table. It's a crisis.











(I've been spending too much time reading Sally's posts and it's rubbing off).

Talk about 'bottling' is a bit childish and doesn't help much. There were serious red flags about our composure though yesterday. Marshall talked about patience and building pressure at 16-6, which is fine, but as soon as we conceded that daft try after half time we went to Hail Mary passes and trying to score off every play - even with half an hour left. That made us very easy to pick off.

Totally agree about that last bit. Was a bit surprised when we began chasing the game so early. Yes, we were 3 scores down, but when the game actually settled down in the last 15 minutes of the first half, we had looked much the better side and a similar mindset in the second half could have got us closer to Saints on the scoreboard and that, coupled with fatigue, might easily have seen them crumble.

Instead, we played into their hands, playing some pretty dumb rugby.

On a positive note, the spirit was there, but they were just a bit naive how we went about things.

P.S. how long a contract as Drinkwater got, because unless we utilise him better (if he is capable), then he's going to become an obvious weak link as nothing with any attacking positivity seems to go through him?

Actually thought that Dufty to half back (hasn't he played there in Oz, or am I mistaken?) and Thewlis or Ashton to full back might have been worth a shot as that second half wore on.

'Bottling it' gets overused and seems to have just become a euphemism for 'losing a game'.

It first came up when we lost the playoff semi final in 2011 and Grand Final in 2012 to Leeds. The Leeds team that beat us was an all time great team and its fair to say that Wire had a good side but won't be regarded as an all time great side. But we beat Leeds in the 2010 and 2012 Challenge Cup finals. So were Leeds not the bottlers, for losing two big games to an inferior side?

Warrington have a 100% record in Grand Finals?

I suppose the term is thrown at those who are favourites to win but lose. Thankfully it happens a lot in sport ... which makes it fun. Used a fair bit in "tip tap" ... so I keep away from it.

What about Catalans? We've just about played each side with our new squad and Powell is still learning about the players and who can be relied upon when the chips are down, or who can fill in certain positions. It's not a 6 month process and it certainly isn't a process which one can expect to master after playing everyone just once in 3 month's of competitive games. You can't just buy a team and expect them to just win 10 out of 10 opening fixtures, especially without any props.

When our props are back, the space will open up for our backs again and our brand of rugby is a million miles better than under Price (please don't say you'd rather Price).

Anyway Matt-wire, any solutions? Get a new coach in and new players, then sack them when they lose and repeat the process until we're eternally unbeaten?

Most of us are disappointed with Thursday, but let's not forget the positives so far and put things into perspective; we don't want this forum turning into an embarrassing, spoilt, moan-athon like Redvee.

There's an opportunity to reflect on what went wrong in the ruck, and letting a lot of high kicks hit the floor (very poor from Dufty) against Wigan and Saints, and put it right. These games do not define our season, and we'll have another similar series of games coming up - St Helens (H) 7/7 Wigan (A) 14/7 Cup Semi 22/7. I'll be disappointed if we cannot get back to making the hard yards, and being more competitive than we have been in the last two games. Should we make the cup semi's, ours will come off the back of two hard difficult fixtures, which would be a concern. A cup run and then the playoffs will be what ultimately defines our season, which are along way into the future.

The Saints and Wigan are not important.
We need to manage our pack better than we have this last 4/5 weeks.
We need to be going in to a semi final with a full complement of props….
Then we manage selections again ahead of the final.
We cannot afford to go into those 2 games as we have the last 2, and would have next week, but for the international.

Powell has dropped a right bollox. When you know you have players who are more likely to get banned than others but are vital, you don’t play them. You make sure they play in the game you need them too.

Can you please expand (not literally as we don't want fois gras Rubber Duckie). I think we had 3 players banned: Vaughan, Philbin and Dudson. Vaughan's ban was ridiculous and unpredictable. Philbin isn't a dirty player so unpredictable again. Dudson I think had a ban last year for similar, so are you suggesting he shouldn't have played Dudson in the Catalan game? I'm a bit confused by this. Are you saying he shouldn't have played Philbin or Vaughan in their cited games to avoid bans? If so, then I'm struggling who he could play at front row for the Catalan game and those games before.

We’ve always been able to beat Wigan and Saints, had a good run at both recently, it’s always been Hudds away, Wakey away games like that we’ve dropped daft points, the fact we have a no go forward due to a freakish injury situation plays a large part as well. Amazing progress from last year.