Much has been posted (mainly by Wigan & Saints fans) about our team being full of Old Men who are almost ready for their Pipe & Slippers.

Well last Saturday 10 of the 17 that played for us were 27 years old or under (Ryan & Simon are both 27 )

Rhys Evans
Ryan Atkins
Chris Riley
Stefan Ratchford
Richie Myler
Chris Hill
Simon Grix
Mike Cooper
Ben Currie
Tyrone McCarthy

These players have an average age of 23.

If fit Ben Harrison would have been playing, Ben was 25, 2 days ago.

I'm not too worried, everybody grows older, the argument from the more reasoned posters though isn't the amount of over 30's players more the role they are in

Full Back Hodgson

Stand Off Briers

Hookers Higham, M.Monaghan

Props Morley, Wood, Carvell

2nd Row Westwood, Waterhouse


Hodgson isn't a problem, we have Stefan and i think he'll flourish for many a year to come.

Briers although brilliant and irreplaceable we have O'Brien.

Hookers is the main one, Monas is brilliant on form, Higham's game has changed and last season and this seems to have raised his game but the trouble with both is they'll probably finish their careers at the same time, we can't put the full responsibility on young Dwyers shoulders, still wet behind the ears with no obvious interchange. Hooker is the main position we need to look at for next season for me.

Props as strange as this sounds i'm not too worried. Morley is still a great leader and still easily good enough for SL but at his current level there are better props out there so replaceable, Wood again is another very good prop but replaceable. Carvell for me is the only loss and in a few years i expect us to have cover.

Westwood and Waterhouse, how do you replace Westwood... you don't, you can't and of all the players currently over 30 he's the one i'll miss the most. Cover wise though we have plenty of people coming through, and in the future if Atkins loses his pace i can see him possibly moving to the 2nd row similar to Chev Walker. House is a beast but again replaceable.

So really a class Hooker, prop and 2nd row is what i'd look for and the rest either covered or recruited from within.

So that means 7 of the 17 are old and will need replacing soon.

The big question is when guys like Briers, Michael Monaghan, Morley, Westwood, Waterhouse, Carvell, Hodgson retire, have we got better players lined up to replace them, or are we planning on the squad being weaker rather than stronger?

It's easy to say it'll be alright in the end, remember how the Saints fans always laughed at us for predicting Saints decline because Saints bring through so many great young players, Graham, Eastmond, Lomax, Gaskell etc, so Saints would not go into decline they would continue to be at the top and win trophies even without Long, KC, Pryce and co.

I believe it will be tough to find better players who are at the same level (Not potential) as Briers, Monas,Westwood, House, Carvell or Hodgeson. I am not looking at this with P&B specs on but if we had the pick of SL today who would you bring in at the same level to replace the galacticos as listed? Tomkins, Roby possibly, but then who? I would imagine it to be difficult to bring Australians over with their salary cap.

Rest your sphincters, chaps.
We'll cope
We've had these players a number of years.
Briers has ALWAYS been prone to month long injuries. We've coped.
We bought Hodgson as an old man, who needs "handling", but we have a replacement "in situ"
Westwood. Replaced by Currie.
Waterhouse can be replaced by another NRL player
As Yed has alluded to, hooker is the one. We have Dwyer to come through the ranks but is he ready. If not, I don't mind Houghton @ Hull as a back-up, to an NRL star.
Props, well Harrison plays as an auxilliary prop, so there's one. Hopefully, by the time Carvell's time is up, one of the academy will be ready, and another NRL will fill the gap. Unless we can unearth another Hill from the Championship.

Yes we will cope, but "coping" and "competing for trophies" are different things.

It doesn't take much to lose ground in a couple of years when a number of quality players all leave at the same time.

Look at Bradford 2005 compared to Bradford 2008 for instance.
Or Hull 2006 compared to Hull 2009.
Or Saints 2008 compared to Saints now.
Wigan got to back to back finals under Mike Gregory in 2003 and 2004 then were fighting relegation in 2006.

I fear that whilst its easy to say now, relax we'll be fine, in a few years time we will be feeling like we have slipped off the pace not least as Tony Smith may decide that his natural cycle of coaching a club might come to an end with these players and its as good a time as any to move on to a new challenge.

We have had a crucial advantage in the last 5 to 6 years as we have had the best playmaker in Super League. We will notice the difference, if we are in a situation where we no longer have that position.

Looking around, there are some players that you might cherry pick and drop into the team, but will they be available to us ? Meanwhile the tide of Oz players continues to recede, exposing the threadbare nature of RL in the UK. For the first time ever, I can only think of one player in the Saints team that I would be happy to accept. If you add in the competition for players from the likes of Hull last year and perhaps Salford this year ( not to mention Oz) I would suggest that we will need to look to our own youth development for the bulk of our players in the future. I am sure we will still get the occasional Hill, and splash out on an expensive Myler, but there has not been many suggested purchases from this forum recently. If we wanted a big experienced prop to replace Morley, how many options are there ? More importantly, how many would be available ?


If this is the case, we do have something of a problem, which is an age gap. We have some emerging talent, but we don't know yet how good it will be. Even if the players make the grade (top 4 standard), Dwyer will not become Monas in 2014 and Ben Evans will not suddenly replace Morley. It took Myler a good few years to develop into the player he currently is. Evans has hopefully started down that path, but the likes of Currie, Dwyer, GOB have barely started. For me, I would like to cram our 30 something's into the DeLorean and wind back time by 3 yrs. I reckon that is something like the age gap we need to bridge, if we are to maintain a challenge for silverware over the next few years.

We last got in this situation in the mid 1990s when we had been a good side (albeit not as good now) and then lost Davies, Bateman and Mackey all at the same time. There were high hopes for the future back then because there were promising youngsters to take their spots like Penny, Roper and Duffy but none of them made it to the same level and Harris and Scully soon left for better things. 20 months was the time between only missing out on the championship due to points difference, and 80-0 at Saints.

We were broke then and aren't now. That's a big difference, plus the structure of the club is a zillion x better off nowadays so I don't fear any repeat of the 90s.

it is a cause for concern though and we will have a job on to replace Monaghan x2 Hodgson and Briers. That would be a tough enough ask without the NRL effectively closing it's doors to SL

End of 2013 will be very interesting IMO. We are likely to see Salford, Hull, us and probably Leeds and Wigan all scrambling for the best of the rest in the player market. Alot of money may be spent getting players you might not consider to be worth it. We laughed at Wigan paying for MattySmith, Scott Taylor and Blake Green but that's the market we all may need to get used to.

You are all missing a generation out in the middle. It isn't going to be currie who replaces Westwood it will be Grix then Currie will replace Grix. It won't be Evans to replace Morley, it will be Hill and Evans will fill Hill's vacant position. The point is we have players who can step up another level with out it being a huge jump. They will become our leaders. The kids will fill the vacant spots left.

Some great points raised on this thread. All the more reason why it is vital we invest as much as we can into youth development both at the club and within the town. Hopefully everyone will be aware of the Sport England RFL funding cuts which have made it very difficult for the Foundation to continue their excellent community development programmes across the borough. They are now seeking alternative funding streams including the assistance of the Supporters Trust. As a fan there are various ways we can all help but the very simplest way (that will give you direct benefits back too) is to join the Trust or referably SqB too. www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/new ... pite_cuts/ www.squadbuilder.co.uk/wwstwhat.asp www.squadbuilder.co.uk/sqbwhat.asp www.squadbuilder.co.uk/newsstory.asp?news_id=252 The more members we get, the more we can help the Foundation and the Club build on the excellent youth development work of the past few years. If you are a committed Wire fan - are you a Trust or SqB member? If not, why?

Some great points raised on this thread. All the more reason why it is vital we invest as much as we can into youth development both at the club and within the town. Hopefully everyone will be aware of the Sport England RFL funding cuts which have made it very difficult for the Foundation to continue their excellent community development programmes across the borough. They are now seeking alternative funding streams including the assistance of the Supporters Trust. As a fan there are various ways we can all help but the very simplest way (that will give you direct benefits back too) is to join the Trust or referably SqB too. www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/new ... pite_cuts/ www.squadbuilder.co.uk/wwstwhat.asp www.squadbuilder.co.uk/sqbwhat.asp www.squadbuilder.co.uk/newsstory.asp?news_id=252 The more members we get, the more we can help the Foundation and the Club build on the excellent youth development work of the past few years. If you are a committed Wire fan - are you a Trust or SqB member? If not, why?

Not Quite.

Lets assume, just for the sake of argument, that we have the identical squad in 2014 as this year. The only difference is that Morley decides to retire and current top dog Ben Evans returns. By your argument, Morley is 'replaced' by Hill (no problem) and Woody or Coops replaces Hill, whilst Evans starts to learn his trade with a modest number of starts. Much as I love Woody, he is not as good as Hill (England international), so we have lost some quality in the squad. And Evans is only just starting out, he is not going to become an experienced prop overnight. If you carry that argument across several positions where we have 'ageing rock stars' then the effect is magnified. So the point Sally is making is that yes, we may well have a good team, but not necessarily a silverware winning team.

My point is very similar. But I am looking where we can replace 'like with like'. Outside the club, quality seems to be falling (and Oz too expensive). The likes of Ben Evans need several years (like Myler) to mature, and even then, he may not be as good as Hill. So our youngsters are not sufficiently developed as yet to even know if they will be as good as our star players, let alone replace them. GOB has had the most SL exposure of our youngsters. If he replaces Briers next year, will we have the same quality team ? And Ratchford can not be in two places at once. If you use him at half, who will replace Bret ?

replacing the morleys, westwoods, monaghans will be done the same way they were originally recruited.

That's just shocking, are you seriously asking us to believe that players will change their club just for money ?

pah !