I am saddened by the attitudes I see on here.

So OK we are not playing well and are likely to have an uneventful season. Some players are suffering with form, some signings have not turned out how we may have wished. But blimey the reaction? Like a petulant 3 year old denied a toy.

May I remind that Tony Smith has been the most successful post war manager this team has ever had. We have won 4 trophies under his reign and 2 GF visits. This was the stuff of fantasy in my period of watching since '79.

We are having a poor season but I back him to sort it out. The faithful backed Cullen for 6 seasons of mediocrity without achieving anything prior. Surely we owe Smith a little loyalty, breathing space and time?

Also the way certain individuals talk in derisive terms about players who have won silverware for us less than 3 years ago, but now are struggling, speaks volumes about them. e.g.) Joel Monaghan leading try scorer last year and darling of the faithful in 2014 can now "get shut". Ben Westwood who runs his blood to water and earned the monicker "Super" can now be got rid off like an embarrassing relative. Charming fans aren't we? Zero grace, honour or class.

To me loyalty and fairness means sticking with people through the good and the bad and giving them a fair chance and reasonable time to remedy the situation.

I believe that is in the best interests of the Club at the moment, rather than the rabid demands for a mass clear out.

Well said dude...
Wire till I die..
From The Cradle To The Grave...!!

Does this mean you're renewing your platinum tickets then?

Whilst i broadly agree wires71, in any business you need to keep building and advancing because you know the opposition are. We were desperate for a half back last season and i cannot for the life of me fathom why that was not addressed for this season, i do feel smith has took his foot off the gas somewhat but i'm not calling for his head. (Lets get cullen back to make the signings and smith coach them)

Hang on... You were complaining about ticket prices and saying you only rarely attend now?

Although things aren't going to plan, and I am getting increasingly frustrated with some of the things smith says and does, I am prepared to give him time to sort it out. This is due to the fact of what he has achieved with us so far, and also if we get rid of him I can't see us finding an improvement.

Now I know it's been said a lot, but I think Agar is a massive problem. And yes I am well aware that smith has brought him in, so he is partly responsible.

If a player gets asked a question on Twitter about agar the response is one you can always tell they have struggled for an answer. It's no secret that smith leaves a lot of the coaching to his assisstant, and under agar our attack has vanished. They look like a team who don't have any faith in what they are being asked to do. I think if we replace agar, then things will improve.

We must sign a top class halfback. We do need other positions as well but a half back is a must, we still haven't replaced lee briers.

One thing that smith does which annoys me, is pick his favourites every week. Atkins, Myler, Asotasi are no where near good enough yet they are in the team every time they are available. This could be smiths decision, or it could be Moran saying well I pay these players a lot of money and I don't do that for them to sit on the bench.

We need a big clear out, and some top replacements to come in. But for this year I think we are confined to the middle 8's now, we need to just focus on trying to make Wembley, and retaining our super league status before a big off season of recruitment to kick on with next year.

How do you judge success and failure, is it just about winning trophies ?

I think TS will have a problem with his end of year appraisal because more than anything, he has failed to build a quality team from the ashes of the one he (mainly) inherited. Youth training has gone well. The early years of recruitment also went well (Solo, Atkins, Hodgson, Monaghen, Ratchford, Hill) but then we hit 2013 with no recruitment, followed by 2014 with Asotasi and three 'ok' signings in England, Penny and Russell. This year he has been unlucky with Clark, whilst Wheeler was a trip to BetFred and Simms was a BR when we needed a mongrel prop. Meanwhile Woody was not replaced (difficult, but an error), Higham left (unlucky) and the team was still missing a ringmaster (error). So from the last 3 years recruitment we have brought in one very good player, and even he is underperforming.

No sentiment in the results business + what respect I had for Smith went right out the window when he got his best buddy squah partner a job and let Monas go + you talk about loyalty!

I think the reason for our lack of attacking options is that Briers is no longer on the playing staff....many points in our successful years came from his pin point kicking. That has been a problem since before Agar came so it is not his fault we are not scoring. We need a top class field kicker to get us back to the top table because for two seasons we have not found another way to score enough with ball in hand, which is leading to rushed plays,panic rugby & unforced handling errors. I am sure the players don't like the position the team is in any more than we do but they have nothing else up their collective sleeve & the frustration is beginning to come out in on field fighting with opponents.
There should have been enough foresight in the management to see Briers's career was coming to an end towards the end of 2013 ,but nothing was done to replace his talent & input into every game played. We may have talented young lads coming through but they can't all have the experience & x factor that Lee had....i'm not saying in the future though that someone will not come along & make Lee look like a novice.

Didn't say it was Agar's fault.The title of the thread is loyalty + that's why I made the Monas point.This guy would have had the respect of all the players which if you go by rumour mill Agar has not got.

Smith I believe has said the criticism of Agar is unwarranted hinting all is well, no sign of him around last night though.

As for loyalty we are all behind the club just commenting on our observations, the players self criticise after they feel they have had a below performance Mick Monas would sulk for a week after a defeat, is it that Smith is too loyal? possibly, as others have stated we feel the half back position has not been sorted, yet to Smith he had Myler, O'Brien, Ratchford with Bridge in the mix so to him where's the problem, that I think is the problem not facing up to the fact for whatever reason they are collectively not doing the business.

Welcome to sport. In any country. any league, and at any level.

I don't think people are out of order because they believe that some of the players who won things years ago are now past their best and shouldn't be retained on sentiment.

I do however believe Tony Smith is still the right person for Warrington and will correct the wrongs at the end of the year.

The Way I look at it is that Smithy WILL sort it out. Look at Leeds in 04/05 had a few years of pain . I would quite happily have 2/3 years of pain for 5/6 years of glory


Ad when it comes to loyalty , If you don't wont to support Wire in the pain we don't want ya.

The loyalty of the fan to the club should be unswerving and without question. Many of the supporters of the club will, like me, have spent god-forsaken afternoons in weather that would send a dog scurrying underneath the kitchen table, wondering if they would ever see Wires win [ione[/i challenge cup final in their liftetimes, let alone three. So we should be eternally grateful to TS for that golden period in the club history.

However. that period is gone. The old maxim in sport about only being as good as your last game is partly true. We cannot present TS and certain members of the squad with endless get out of jail free cards on the basis of events that happened two seasons and more ago. That way lies stagnation then decline.

Compare and contrast two hugely successful British football managers of (relatively) recent years, Alex Ferguson & Brian Clough. Ferguson achieved success over an unprecedented period by constantly reviewing, appraising and changing his squads and did not allow sentiment or loyalty to get in the way. Brian Clough achieved remarkable success at Derby & Forest, before he went into decline. His decision-making, recruitment and tactics became questionable and led to the the club itself going into decline, something they have never recovered from. Forest stuck with him purely out of loyalty, and the stubborn belief that he could recapture former glories. Granted, Clough's decline was largely due to alcoholism but it's a valid comparison.

There's a point where blind loyalty, and ignorance to an individuals failings, becomes terminal and we may be approaching that point with several individuals at the club. They may have served us well in the past, but are no longer doing so and indeed are holding us back.

No. Cannot afford it.