I know it was only a friendly today but I have to say the anticipation and build up for the return of Widnes has been very flat this year, compared to this time ten years ago when they were coming back into Super League. In 2001 after they had come back into SL, all the off season chat was about how the derbies would go next year, the old Wolfweb forum had loads of Widnes fans on it, there were transfer rumours and speculation between the two clubs, we were linked with signing Phil Cantillon, Craig Weston had signed for us then quit and rejoined them, they were linked with signing Briers.

I remember that Boxing Day derby in 2001 at Halton Stadium being massively anticipated whereas this time it hasn't been anything like that at all. That derby we were garbage and we were making excuses 'its only a friendly' but with hindsight the warning signs were there even then as to what was coming ahead under Anderson and Plange.

In the four years Widnes were up last time we had 11 derbies, we won 6, they won 5. There were some cracking games in there though, in the first two years especially. They beat us three times in close games in 2002, we beat them three times in 2003.

The one that really stands out for me is a game at Wilderspool in August 2003, where the build up had that infamous 'three eyed fish' poster. I think they were 6th and we were 7th going into that game, so it was billed as a big battle for the final playoff spot with about 6 weeks to go off the season. They were 10-0 up approaching half time then we scored twice just before half time and twice just after half time, and Wilderspool was rocking, with hindsight that burst of tries was a turning point in the fortunes of the two clubs after that. We won the game and had momentum there to finish the season strongly and make the playoffs, and with the new stadium coming for 2004, our ambitions were always a lot higher after that. Widnes fell away after that loss and lost most of the rest of their games that season, and their next two years were fights against relegation (although they did manage to get derby wins against us in 2004!).

Does anybody else feel a bit disappointed at the relatively flat anticipation of the derbies next year...?

Wolfweb was certainly pretty fiery around that time.

I know what you mean, but the situations aren't the same are they? We were an average side back then and Widnes had made a few decent signings; this time we're one of the top sides and they've signed a lot of dross. I think the Widnes fans are aware of this too, and they're also a bit disarmed by the fact that they can't take the mick for us not winning fluck all, and 1989 is further and further in the past.

With stability and the odd big signing they'll get better as the licensing period goes on and the derbies will ramp up in intensity. At the moment, their squad is a few decent pros, a good number of cast-offs and a crop of promising kids - as long as they go through the process of replacing the cast-offs with quality, they'll be top 8 in 2013-4

From the point of view of an outsider, I think you've touched on it in your post that the teams were much more closely matched in those days and certainly if today was anything to go by then there will be at least ten teams between you in the league table next season.

I didn't think Warrington were that bad.

Neither did he

dont get all this derby nonsense with widnes that lot from up the m6 is the bigger derby for me...who we beat on a regular basis,,also where a certain mr myler does very well..ask joel and loughlin

Why were Widnes playing in Liverpool's kit?

I hadn't thought of that but it's the obvious point. 1989 was only 12 years in the past back then so it was still borderline recent in 2001. Although I expect most Widnes fans are the same ones that have been going for years and can remember all the glory days, I bet now a large percentage of Warrington fans that use this forum are under age 25 which means Kurt Sorensen, Tony Myler etc will mean nothing to them anyway. They used to taunt us about 30 years of mediocrity but now they've had 20 years of mediocrity mixed with worse.



I think the next 18 months are going to be make or break for them. What they really need, if they do have strong finance behind them, is to bring on board a top coach and make a couple of top signings to lay down some intent. At the moment their squad looks like cannon fodder and I can see next season being an angry one for their fans, protesting against Betts for being clueless. They need to get someone like Brian Noble in and then pull a few rabbits out of the hat like sign Gareth Hock and maybe a couple of high profile NRL players. They can get away with one bad season next year, if they have big guns lined up for 2013, but if they have two seasons as wooden spoonists then the fans will turn away and players will not want to join them as they will be seen as the flops. The danger is they could get like Huddersfield were before Tony Smith took over, bottom every year and the one everyone wouldn't touch with a bargepole.

Personally, I thought from their perspective it appeared like cup final day today. Fans and team alike were more up for it, and we simply saw it as a run out. Perhaps I am being disrespectful saying that but most people around me were checking footy scores on their mobiles rather than watching the game.

I dont know, it felt a little bit like UTD vs City pre city £££

Back then we had lost Toa, Alfie, Nutley, Nikau, Gee and they were getting replaced by Maden, Rodwell, Fozzard, Burns and Laughton. Out of those Burns and Fozzard went very well for us but otherwise our quality had declined. The squad Widnes put together also didn't have quality so we were both level really.

We had tried and failed to bring their coach to the club, they were in the better stadium while we were at Wilderspool waiting for new stadium planning to be agreed, we still hadn't won anything in recent times and we didn't have money.

Now they have a much lower quality squad than us, they have been relegated and we never have, we have a bigger stadium (with a proper pitch), plus we have more recent trophy wins than them.

Another thing (although I may be totally wrong) is that I don't remember us having played Widnes prior to the 2001 Boxing Day game since they dropped out of the First Division. So it had been five years since we'd had a game against them.

That's understandable, there is going to be more anticipation for them as they are gearing up for Super League with a number of new signings and are interested in getting a first view of their new team.

I always hate this reference to it being someone else's cup final though. We always had that used against us when we started to get results against the top teams in the Cullen era, we'd beat Bradford or Leeds or something and their fans would say - "look at the sad Wire fans, celebrating like it was their cup final!". Living in Leeds I used to hear that all the time from the angry mob in the Skyrack, it did make me chuckle when we beat them at Wembley to wonder if the same excuse went through their minds

Its difficult to get as excited as past Widnes Derbies because now the difference in the two teams is so stark.
Yesterday everyone knew that Wire would win so the anticipation was not as great.

If we were to be playing Saints then the game would be more in the balance and people would have a sense of not knowing.

Are you serious? Im not trying to troll or cause an argument here but two challenge cups in a whole generation is STILL 'fluck all'. When we were last in your position, we were winning major trophies regularly, not once in a blue moon.

There is a big gap between us at the moment but hopefully in 12 months or 2 years time we can get closer again and get the old ding dong battles back on derby day. Was fantastic to see the two sides line up again together yesterday.