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Quote: Wires71 "So to translate what you are saying

"when the tight games come in poor conditions in September, Cas could get picked off by a knock out rugby specialist such as *Warrington".

Here's hoping. Good lad, that's the spirit.

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Quote: moving on... "A knockout rugby specialist can be described as

Interesting point this.

We won three Challenge Cups, winning our first three major finals. At this point surely we were knockout rugby specialists. Leeds went through years when they could not win the Challenge Cup despite probably being the best team overall, so they were not knockout rugby specialists but they beat us in the 2011 playoffs and 2012 Grand Final?

Wigan have been in the last four Grand Finals, won two, lost two. That's a 50-50 record

St Helens have lost five of the last six Grand Finals they have been in, they seem to struggle to win in the big occasion.

I wonder whether what is really happening is that Wigan, Leeds and Saints (and to a lesser extent us) have been the better sides over the past ten years, and so are making a lot of finals and semis, but once there there's an element of randomness in who beats who. So the best teams win more trophies than others, but they also lose a lot of big knock out games, rather than there being teams that are systemic knock out rugby specialists.

Maybe getting to finals is the hard part and once in a final its just like tossing a coin and heads you win.

Tony Smith tossed heads in his first three finals, and we all acclaimed him as a genius, but now he's come up with four tails, is he a useless toss er or are we just observing randomness. icon_ask.gif

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Agar chose tails the last 4 times..

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In answer to the thread title. After tonight, expectations are zero. Had we won and Saints lost we break into 7th (?) place and look like starting to threaten top 4. Instead, the old Hull turn up and seemingly the old Saints as well as the same old Warrington. Middle 8 doldrums at best i reckon. I despair.

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Must try harder.

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