Except we have invested more money than them 3 teams, and they're the ones who have won at least 1 grand final since Smith took over.

Don't really see your point anyway... the poster I replied to made out that our squad is far weaker than Wigans and castlefords. I said if it was, Smith should leave because he has invested very poorly.

I don't know if Patton was injured during the GF but i think Smith's biggest boo boo was probably substituting Sandow for Patton. Given what happened later in the year maybe Sandow was not fully committed to playing that day.

I think Smiths biggest Boo Boo was not taking the 2 points on offer in the first half of the first G/F against Wigan .

He would probably tell you that too .

Wigan win another major title under Shaun Wane.

I know he probably seems like Wigan through and through but money talks.

Would you accept an increase in season ticket prices if it meant we were able to afford an offer to Wane that would turn his head and get him on board at Warrington for 2018?

If Smith was to leave yes. I wouldn't sack Smith for him as he doesn't deserve to be sacked and I don't think Moran would. He is here for how long he wants to be IMO.

I agree with the Wenger comparisons that have been made. My big concern is that we seem to be satisfied with second or "improving" - there's only one metric that counts - winning. In the last 4 seasons we haven't won anything. LLS is nice but let's be honest the top rank trophies are the CC and SL GF.

The culture of the club is good but seems a bit soft to me - we don't seem to hate losing or fear failure as much as Wane's Wigan.

The reality is that we need to win a major trophy this season or we need to start thinking about a change. At the minute it feels like an Arsenal situation where the manager is so in charge he's lost all threat to his position.

I'm also wary of reading too much into last weekend - we played well in the similar game in 15 and had a stinker of a season.

Anyway - let's hope we take off from last Saturday and are chanting Smith Forever at OT in October!

Perhaps I can help with your confusion.

The team in the 80's which you refer to was the team to last win silverware for Warrington until recently. The Premiership in '86 and John Player in 91, we won nothing again until 2009, nearly 20 barren years later. It is right that that team is celebrated as they achieved that against the odds being a club with a small support base and limited cash against a dominant Wigan. People who actually watched that side will need no reminding of how good it was.

However it is perfectly possible to hold a position now where one recognises the traits of serially successful clubs and, as the club are now in a position to compete financially with them, consider it reasonable to emulate the desire to win and exhibit winning cultures. We currently do not do that.

So you can see we can laud the team of the 80's and raise the question the winning attitude of the team which 30 years later is in a different space financially.

You can tell the winning attitude a mile away. Wigan would not stick with a coach who won nothing for 4 years, losing 4 finals, neither would Saints or Leeds. Simple as that really.

You're being very selective in your argument though. You can't claim that the LLS means nothing (not sure if you have, but most Smith detractors seem to be suggesting this), then say that the Premiership or Regal Trophy (as it was in '91) count as worth winning. And you've ignored the point that this side wasn't even second best-Widnes and others were ahead, and they had no more cash than us (and only better crowds as they were winning). In '86 Wigan were not a dominant force and their '85 cup win was their first in 20 years, whilst they hadn't won the league in 25. You can't retro fit their later dominance as a reason our team from this time didn't win more.

On the strength of trophies and finals, Smith's achievements even post the 3 cup wins is still ahead of the team in the mid/late 80s, and has been done in an era of the salary cap, with an aging team that needed re-building. I've said before, 2014-2015 will prove to this era the equivalent of our 1951-1952 period; I believe Smith can still lead us to a second peak similar to the mid-50s team. Keep the faith!

I am not comparing the teams of the 80s and the current one. That would not be fair based on the financial situations. All I am defending is that it's possible to recognise the achievements of those wins in 86 and 91 where a win at all costs attitude would be ridiculous, and now having different expectations of the team.

Smith has been wonderful for Warrington. The question was "is it time to part ways if we fail to win the GF in his 8th year". It seems to divide opinion. But as I've said, if we had the ruthless win at all costs attitude that Wigan, Leeds and Saints have then Smith would most likely have been replaced already.

TS built the best team in the league in 2011, it was honestly a travesty that team didn't get a chance to compete in the grand final, I haven't seen a better team win it since.

We were always heading for a rebuilding period, but throughout that period we have challenged. Ask Leeds how they have fared through theirs....

I was sat on a table at a charity do with TS tonight and the guy is just inspiring, there is no one else in SL I would want at the head of my club.

He's built again, this team is more than capable of winning a grand final, and it's the youngest team I've seen at Warrington for a long, long time. He's brought in young English players and he's managed to keep good British players at the club when other teams are seeing players disappear down under.

Yes he is well backed, yes plenty of money has been spent, but TS is the man that WILL land us a grand final. And more importantly, he's the sort of man I want leading my rugby team.

Six years ago.



I would be very happy with Leed's achievements in the last 8 years. To compare is facile. So far they have had one duff season where they won nothing.



I don't dispute any of that. In fact you make my point for me. You are saying that in your case all that is more important than becoming serial winners.