Valid point but I was thinking more the way Wane played and utilised his wingers and won with twelve men, as you say Russell and Evans play their part as Smith dictates Wanes wingers get the ball at pace, I can't and won't knock the players but I don't want to watch wingers driving it down the middle, as you say it's all ifs and buts, had we been down to twelve who knows what Wigan would have done with the extra space.

I couldn't agree more. We can't seem to play basic,sensible rugby.

Funny thing, I can't remember much about that grand final, I can remember all the challenge cups,the 13 final but the twelve, not much

This lack of ability to win big tight games was in evidence back against Leeds in the semi in 2011. We are great if we blow teams away by half time. We are a different story when it's close. Game management and composure under pressure.

Unfortunately,on Friday we didn't have the manpower to play a tight game up the middle which doesn't fit with our style anyway. What was noticeable though was when Wigan played us at our own expansive game we were worryingly overwhelmed.

Prime examples or not, I was referring to the quote which wrongly claimed that we hadn't beaten quality opposition in a final. Leeds were a quality side both years we beat them at Wembley and the fact we blew them away had as much to do with Tony Smith as our collapse on Friday night did.

If we're to analyse Smith's time here and discuss his failings, lets at least keep it valid and not devalue our achievements under him by saying we've not beaten quality opposition.