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Deserved what we got. Hull have been far the standout team this year and deserve the shield. Same story from us. Decent lead then hang on for 30 mins as we have no kicking game to manage the game and see it out. If you compare us to other top teams, our recruitment has been poor. May as well have been Chris Hill 28 Wigan 35. Had enough of Tony Smith I'm afraid now. Time for a change.

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I couldn't agree more. We can't seem to play basic,sensible rugby.

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Funny thing, I can't remember much about that grand final, I can remember all the challenge cups,the 13 final but the twelve, not much

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This lack of ability to win big tight games was in evidence back against Leeds in the semi in 2011. We are great if we blow teams away by half time. We are a different story when it's close. Game management and composure under pressure.

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Unfortunately,on Friday we didn't have the manpower to play a tight game up the middle which doesn't fit with our style anyway. What was noticeable though was when Wigan played us at our own expansive game we were worryingly overwhelmed.

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Quote: FlexWheeler "Actually those 2 games are prime examples. Warrington started the games and were the better team and then won comfortably. But when the other team is able to match warrington and show they can cause problems, or it's a relatively close game, warrington lose. Even some times warrington have squandered positions when they should have closed out an easy win.

That's the point, under Smith warrington will only win the trophy on the line games if they rack up a lead and the opposition is easily second best. Even simply racking up a lead has proven to not be sufficient because when the opposition have some fight warrington can't close it out.

Leeds have literally won 6 grand finals when it was knip and tuck right up until the last 10. You need to be able to do this to post titles. Warrington have consistently shown under smith an inability to do this and thus, zero titles.'"

Prime examples or not, I was referring to the quote which wrongly claimed that we hadn't beaten quality opposition in a final. Leeds were a quality side both years we beat them at Wembley and the fact we blew them away had as much to do with Tony Smith as our collapse on Friday night did.

If we're to analyse Smith's time here and discuss his failings, lets at least keep it valid and not devalue our achievements under him by saying we've not beaten quality opposition.

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