Asotasi

Not the usual criticism of him. Just watched the saints match again, and I think it's the first time I've seen him pointing, talking and smiling during a game this season. Who knows, maybe something has clicked.

haha.... HANSUM MAN

Jon Roper was, frankly, a totally unprofessional idiot and the personification of why shirking arrogance always overcomes talent. He could have been as good as Paul Newlove, maybe even better, but he lacked the work ethic to go with his talent and the intelligence to realise he was throwing away a talent his peers could never attain.

Some of us have waxed lyrical about how so-and-so would have been world beaters in a full time environment; Roper wouldn't. He wouldn't have lasted five minutes in an organisation where how you conduct yourself 24//7 is as important as how you can time a pass.

overall your both right about jon roper but he did have a spell, short lived of what he did was bordering on class. I can't remember how long it lasted but it did happen and he did get the title of super jonny roper.

I can't honestly say I remember the awful Jon Roper you talk about.

I wasn't as into RL back then but I don't remember him being particularly bad. Maybe you guys know more than me.

I do remember Rowland Phillips being a crowd favourite but the number of balls he dropped in the tackle..... unbelievable. Not a great player.

Nobody is questioning Roper's ability, which was considerable, but his attitude stank. He played when he felt like, was lazy and arrogant. He summed up the culture that was the curse of the club in those days.

Which players in the current squad would be mentioned in a similar thread in say 20-30 years time? The Monas brothers, Chris Hill if he continues his current form for a few more years, Westwood. Any more?

An interesting question. Most of the players mentioned, and those remembered fondly, were not only great players, but had charisma and played the game during eras when the game was full of characters. What prompts people to remember them with affection was as much down to their off-the-cuff skills and personalities as their achievements. The SL-revoloution has produced some wonderful stadia, tremendous athletes and some memorable games but has also wholly sanitised the game. I can't stand Hock, and I wouldn't want him at the club, but he is at least a bit of a ner do well who inspires opinions.

Gareth Hock isn't a character. He doesn't have any charisma at all. Just being a troublemaker is not being a character, Zak Hardaker gets sent home from England training camp and done for homophobic abuse but I don't think we'll be musing in 30 years over what a character he was.

Mike Gregory, Nat Wood, these are characters.

Not in a million years could Roper have been as good as Newlove.

What did Roper have that Newlove didn't? He was a reasonably big lad that obviously had some ability, decent hands, and could have been a good SL player, but he wasn't the languid huge hulking destroyer that Newlove was even when Newlove didn't look that interested.

If Roper had been Kevin Sinfield-esque in his attitude he would have had a long career as a SL player and maybe been on the fringes of the GB squad but he was never going to have the impact that the likes of Senior, Newlove or Connolly would.

One problem with Roper was I never fancied his defence, wherever you put him, he wasn't like say Michael Eagar who we had at centre at the same time that was just solid.

The one who could have been as good as Newlove was Toa Kohe-Love, and at his peak he was up there with Newlove. With Toa it wasn't attitude that scuppered him he just had too many injuries. But even when they were both emerging around 1996 you could see Toa was streets ahead of Roper in natural talent.

Well, I disagree but there you go. Newlove played in some great Saints teams, Roper played in some average Wires ones. I maintain Roper didn't have the temperament to make it even in a full-time environment. As for how good he could have been if he'd have had some intelligence, you don't know and nor do I but the talent was there. In terms of GB, as you'll recall he did earn one England cap which showed all the potential was there, but the grey matter was lacking.