We will be fighting for the cup and playoffs as more as any one else, its just going to take a few weeks maybe months, we werent great at start of last season either only hitting form after we losr to Hull FC, by the end of March last year we had lost 3 and draw 1.

We have lost our No 1 and No 6 plus two go to props, even if 3 of the 4 missed chunks of last season anyway its still massive to go without all 4 this year getting Russell back fit at 1. is huge for us, he adds much needed speed to the backline and allows Ratchford and whoever to form a bond at 6 and 7 which takes time.

Can I just point to those making comments like "we all know it's only the last few weeks of the season that matter" that this is patently NOT the case anymore.

We may well be in playoff contention come the business end of the season, but this year we'll be coming up against sides who are fighting to avoid the trapdoor and for their very survival and not, as in previous years, teams coasting through to their end of season holidays.

Woeful is a bit strong seeing as we only conceded 12 points.

That may be a justified post Yed if Wigan wasn't so poor themselves!

bit harsh, remember they are champions, as the Wigan fans reminded us last night.

That may be a justified post TF if Warrington wasn't Grand Finalists themselves.

The biggest problem we have is that our experienced players, who need to be setting examples, are playing absolutely dreadful - The likes of Glenn Riley and Laithwaite must feel completely lacking of confidence, simply because they are seeing the senior players under-performing and it will undoubtedly impact the youngsters' own form.

We have two centres who are stealing a living, along with a scrum half who shouldn't be even playing at this level if that's all he can do on a pitch (very little).

I was never a massive fan of Nathan Wood, but Myler needs to watch a few videos of him, just to show what can be done even if you aren't the most naturally talented player in the world.

I would describe our performance as frustrating rather than woeful. We weren't far off, wigans defence was very good but we definitely didn't ask enough questions of them and bombed some good position with a lack of structure. Defence was ok forwards fronted up very well too.

I'd describe it as garbage and I think some people are deluding themselves. SOME of the forwards fronted up well, some were abysmal, defence was good in places, some players are defending like strangers.

Finally the attack. We didn't bomb anything - that implies we made half chances and blew them by forcing passes or ignoring overlaps. We didn't - we engineered nothing even with a wealth of possession and territory in the final 20 against a tiring, average team.

and to only score 4 that is woeful,,and it came gift wrapped from a wigan pass not of our own doing

Spot on - The forwards actually made good yards, probably more than Wigan, yet after 3 good drives our half backs were nowhere to be seen to be able to create and bring our backs into the game, whereas Wigan did have the talent to at least bring their three quarters into the game on the back of some decent ball.

If Myler/Ratchford/O'Brien is our half back choice for the full season, then we are in for a very mediocre time.