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i don't think the format is to blame really... i remember in 03, 04, 05 (when the format was the essentially same) we were an average side stocked with journeymen who occasionally played out of their skins and pulled off a brilliant performance

when that happened there was no better feeling

and when it didn't happen we either got stuffed and all enjoyed shouting at the ref or ended up in a tight game that could have gone either way which of course was entertaining

and the atmospheres were generally better because we were all willing them on so much, whereas now they only really need willing on in the games against the other top teams (with the occasional exception eg widnes)

is it the case that in superleague in the middle is exciting but a team at the top is simply boring?

wigan speccies are famed for disappearing early

didn't bradford's crowds start dying after season on season of smashing everyone?

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Didn't William Webb Ellis pick up the ball and run, someone should really tell Rugby Union. www.squadbuilder.co.uk:1883.jpg



Quote: Ronniequin "I've got another suggestion for you - a strictly policed salary cap which would produce a level playing field and therefore the competitive games you all crave. FYI London currently spend to the limit of the cap. There's a rumour in London that Simon Moran wants to explore the huge potential of London and introduce celebrities to RL. He may buy out David Hughes. That would then give you fixtures you could get excited about!'"


When did LWF come back?

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The 1993/94 season was indeed a great memory and until Tony Smith arrived it was my favourite time as a Warrington fan. However it is easy to look back through rose tinted glasses:

Back then people used to pick and choose their matches more than they do today. We got over 11000 for that infamous Wigan game where Botica kicked the penalty at the end to beat us. We got 7800 for Saints at home. The rest of the season the gates were around 5000 or so with some gates of 4000 or less.

And also back then the league table was always distorted by some teams having games in hand. I remember us being top for a while but never quite believing we would stay there as Wigan had a number of games in hand on us, which usually you would expect them to win.

The 6-8 game with the Botica kick has gone down in history as the "we was robbed" moment but we still had our destiny in our hands at that point. What really killed us, was a few weeks after that, Leeds smashed us in the Challenge Cup and then we lost the next two league games to Halifax and Bradford. Although we were still top after that, I remember the mood at the time was "we've blown it".

At the end of the season Wigan had to play 10 games in the last 4 weeks to clear their games in hand, and they lost 4 of them including surprising ones to Hull, Hull KR and Sheffield Eagles. This meant the title race was back on.

The really disappointing moment for us was we went to Central Park in the middle of their fixture congestion, when their form was rocky and they were tired, and we lost quite easily. My memory might be rocky on this but I think Davies was missing that game. I knew then we were not deserving of being champions. We won our last few games but after that, Wigan only needed to win theirs to be champions.

Yes that final game of the season for us against Sheffield Eagles was a great atmosphere, but no better than the recent Challenge Cup semis or Saints away in the last playoff last year. The idea that season was one of great atmosphere and interest in rugby league because of a tight three way tussle for the title, is a myth, as is the idea that we were only robbed by Russell Smith's dodgy decision. We had it other opportunities to win the title after that and if we are honest with ourselves we weren't quite up to being champions with the players we had, thought Jonathan Davies took us very very close.

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[quote="Eddie Hemmings said not ":1h9um51j] "Remember last time they were here, the Huddersfield Giants, they lost to a Luke Walsh drop goal. He's only scored four drop goals in his St Helens career has Luke Walsh and each and every one of them have been scored by Luke Walsh"[/quote:1h9um51j]:



Quote: Charlie Sheen "With the play offs it means you get the top teams playing each other more often which I think is better for the game. '"

My favourite 'concept' is to reduce SL to 12 teams and lose the magic weekend and reintroduce P&R. Everyone plays everyone else home and away (22 games) then split the league into top 6 and bottom 6, teams keep their points already accrued and each team plays every other team in their half home and away (another 10 games).

Clubs can budget for the season knowing they will play 16 home and 16 away games.
The Sky excitement starts about round 17 with the will they or won't they make the top 6.
The last 10 weeks of the season has 3 games each week between top teams producing playoff intensity.
The promoted team has a greater chance of staying up as their last 10 games are against the supposedly weaker teams in the league.
Risky for top teams to 'rotate' against lesser teams as this could cost them at the end of the season.
The top team after 32 games are Champions.

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Quote: the flying biscuit "but also to allow Bradford to go above us on points difference didnt Leeds rest their entire team in a game against Bradford because they were due to play at Wembley, and Bradford ran up a cricket score.
'"


So, let me get this straight. In a season where the winner was first past the post there were still cases where league games didn't matter one jot, at least not to some teams.

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Quote: the flying biscuit "im not reading that clearly...?? are you suggesting you could crown a team champions and have the two runners up to them play infront of 75,000 fans for no trophy no title just some nominal prize money and spot in a WCC competition.?

we cant sell out the halton stadium for a knock out game that gets the winner a spot at wembley big prize money and national media coverage......... surely your completely dreaming. we can only ever sell out old trafford for a grand final.

we cant even sell out a football stadium by getting half of the league to play local derbies in it on one day.......'"


Yes Mr biscuit I am dreaming and there is nothing wrong with that if it's fairer and reinvigorates the competition?

I didn't suggest a runners up comp as such, but, was using last season's fixtures as a guide. There wasn't a ban on the League Champions also being in the Play off final

There is 'work' to be done on marketing the game in general, not just the low gates in the early play off rounds or regular week apathy. Surely the first small step is to question what's right and wrong with the game and have an open debate especially if it can be handled by people not referring to grapes of the sour kind every time there is a disagreement? (not that I think you have BTW)

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