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FORUMS > Warrington Wolves > O/T The general election thread (merged) |
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17064.jpg How can I miss you, if you won't go away????:17064.jpg |
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| The sad thing is that whoever wins this election will have won purely by default, on the basis that people's only reason for voting seems to be to stop the other guy from winning, rather than any actual POSITIVE policies.
The embarrassing thing for David Cameron is that this election is not yet a foregone conclusion for him, as he is taking on a government, that with 13 years in power, as simply run its natural course....Cameron should be an absolute shoe-in, similar to how Tony Blair was in 1997, where it was just a case of how big a landslide New Labour would acheive against John Major's demoralised bunch.
Yet Cameron is simply, in the eyes of many, unelectable.....His policies are non existent, and his cabinet in waiting is full of yes men, who are being deliberately cagey when faced with any awkward questions. Certainly, if the Tories have finally learnt one thing after 13 years in the shadows, it is that the only path back to power is the New Labour one, and that is one full of spin, gloss and lots of baby kissing.
As for Labour and Gordon Brown??....Well, even after a lifetime of voting for them, I find little inspiration to vote for them in a month's time. I believe they have done some good in their 13 years...Minimum wage, NI peace, and some fantastic investment in our schools being just some, but as I said earlier, I just feel they have run their natural shelf life, similar to the Tories in '97.
Sadly, I see little credible alternative....I actually could accept a period of Tory government if it had a half decent leader and promised some good for the country, but I fear that this present Tory bunch are a bunch of careerists, looking to look after their own, similar to Thatcher's nasty crew in the 80's.
As a prediction, I see Cameron sneaking home by 10-15 seats, in the lowest turnout on record...Brown will resign, and Alan Johnson will take over, caning Cameron on a weekly basis in PMQ's....
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53838_1362327793.jpg And so you aim towards the sky,
And you'll rise high today,
Fly away, Far away,
Far from pain....:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_53838.jpg |
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| Quote: getdownmonkeyman "With respect, contractors are one, arguably the smallest part of the PFI vehicle and certainly yield the least.'"
Yes, I agree, but my main point was that once it became obvious that the Blair government were going to invest heavily in public services, then various interested parties began circling like the vultures around a lottery winner.
Certainly, Blair & co made a balls up of monitoring expenditure, but it can't be doubted that their aims were actually both the right and honourable ones.
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| This is quite useful and shows the gross debt of various countries over the last 20 years (Just press the play button). I noticed the accelerated increase for all countries since 2007.
rlLinkrl
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10289_1326111229.png Challenge Cup winners 2009 2010 2012 2019
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| Quote: Wires71 "It's easy for us to criticise from the side-lines isn't it? There are no easy answers. Cameron and Osborne are no more stupid or feckless than Blair and Brown, and a lot, lot, smarter that us. Fact is we (individually) don't want to pay enough tax to deliver the services we (collectively) expect. When it is more cost efficient for lazy, bone-idle, UK citizens to stay on benefits than do a days work we are fundamentally fooked. We have made a safety net a life-style choice.
I do blame Blair for the benefit culture and the rise of "rights" over "obligations" and spunking investment (and superb economic conditions) in the NHS and schools without significant results.
I'm with Dr Anthony Daniels (pen name Theodore Dalrymple) on the state of our nation. Take a look outside your window, Britain is ailing.'"
Bizarre that you blame Blair for "benefit culture" seeing as the biggest rise of benefit claimants in history came in the 1980s under the Thatcher government.
In 1979 for instance, when the Conservatives fought an election on the campaign "Labour isn't working" with a poster showing the dole queues, about 6% of the eligible workforce was on unemployment benefits. By 1983 this had doubled to 12%. Even in 1993 this was 10%, it had fallen slightly to just under 7% by the time Labour won the election in 1997.
In the whole of Tony Blair's government, the unemployment rate was lower than it had been when he took over, it stayed at around 5% throughout his time in office then under Brown's government following the recession it went back up to just under 8% and now in Camerons government has risen to just over 8%.
The big sea change in a society where most people were employed to having European style high unemployment took place in the 1980s and 1990s, the point in which we had low unemployment was 1997-2007 which was the Blair years. It was the 1980s where a generation of worklessness was borne, in communities that used to have a culture of getting up and doing a hard days work it became the accepted norm to just go to the DHSS office and sign on, if you don't get what you want start riots.
Then under Blair's years people started getting back to work although the scars of long term unemployment were deep rooted in some of those communities so there were some areas that didn't get reached by employment.
Now in Cameron's government it is going back to the days of the past Tory government, a higher claimant rate than there has been since 1996, unions going on strikes, students rioting and attacking the police, inner city areas rioting.
The Conservatives have always been the party that prides itself on supporting the private sector to create jobs its just a shame that their social policies encourage people to sit at home claiming benefits whilst the employers can't fill them.
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "Bizarre that you blame Blair for "benefit culture" seeing as the biggest rise of benefit claimants in history came in the 1980s under the Thatcher government.
In 1979 for instance, when the Conservatives fought an election on the campaign "Labour isn't working" with a poster showing the dole queues, about 6% of the eligible workforce was on unemployment benefits. By 1983 this had doubled to 12%. Even in 1993 this was 10%, it had fallen slightly to just under 7% by the time Labour won the election in 1997.
In the whole of Tony Blair's government, the unemployment rate was lower than it had been when he took over, it stayed at around 5% throughout his time in office then under Brown's government following the recession it went back up to just under 8% and now in Camerons government has risen to just over 8%.
The big sea change in a society where most people were employed to having European style high unemployment took place in the 1980s and 1990s, the point in which we had low unemployment was 1997-2007 which was the Blair years. It was the 1980s where a generation of worklessness was borne, in communities that used to have a culture of getting up and doing a hard days work it became the accepted norm to just go to the DHSS office and sign on, if you don't get what you want start riots.
Then under Blair's years people started getting back to work although the scars of long term unemployment were deep rooted in some of those communities so there were some areas that didn't get reached by employment.
Now in Cameron's government it is going back to the days of the past Tory government, a higher claimant rate than there has been since 1996, unions going on strikes, students rioting and attacking the police, inner city areas rioting.
The Conservatives have always been the party that prides itself on supporting the private sector to create jobs its just a shame that their social policies encourage people to sit at home claiming benefits whilst the employers can't fill them.'"
You are seeming to link numbers of benefit claimants with "a benefit culture". The benefit culture was called by the liberal elite.
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| Quote: Wires71 "You are seeming to link numbers of benefit claimants with "a benefit culture". The benefit culture was called by the liberal elite.'"
Well it's a good place to start.
During the 1960s and 1970s people didn't mind doing a hard days work down the steel works or the coal pits getting their hands dirty but the Thatcher government of the 1980s turned us into a society where we'd rather turn up and claim dole.
You can't blame people though because with such low wages and the fact people would be paying so much tax and lose their housing benefits they were out of pocket coming off benefits, so they stayed on the dole. That was the Britain of the 1980s and 1990s.
At least Blair's government made some headway into tackling this social failure, brought in a minimum wage, cut the starting rate of income tax to 10p, and introduced a tax credit system for the low paid particularly working families, so it meant work paid. So people moved off benefits and came into work. If you look at the ILO figures across the world, through the 97-07 period we had lower unemployment than all the other G7 economies apart from Japan and briefly the US for a period.
That period was one in which living standards and ambition rose, young people wanted to get an education, go to university and then get graduate jobs and get on the property ladder. In opposition the Tories just said that was Blair's fantasy land of sending everybody to university and there are too many graduates etc. This would be a fair argument if they had come in with a plan of saying there are too many graduates and not enough training in skills x, y and z in which we have skills shortages and so are having to recruit migrants from Eastern Europe, so we are going to shift the education emphasis to providing this training. But there is no plan like that at all, they have just made it more difficult to access higher education (and by cutting EMA, further education as well) with no alternative plan in place. So what you will get is kids doing what they did under the Tories in the 1980s and 1990s, leave school at 16 and then go to the dole office, smoke weed, get pregnant, get provided for by the state.
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Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1 | | PLD | F | A | DIFF | PTS |
Wigan |
20 |
523 |
264 |
259 |
32 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Hull KR |
20 |
503 |
259 |
244 |
30 |
Warrington |
20 |
502 |
267 |
235 |
28 |
Salford |
20 |
377 |
382 |
-5 |
26 |
St.Helens |
20 |
501 |
262 |
239 |
24 |
Catalans |
20 |
376 |
286 |
90 |
24 |
|
Leeds |
20 |
371 |
364 |
7 |
20 |
Leigh |
20 |
398 |
314 |
84 |
19 |
Huddersfield |
20 |
350 |
453 |
-103 |
14 |
Castleford |
20 |
336 |
523 |
-187 |
13 |
Hull FC |
20 |
274 |
612 |
-338 |
6 |
LondonB |
20 |
210 |
735 |
-525 |
4 |
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1 | | PLD | F | A | DIFF | PTS |
Wakefield |
18 |
626 |
222 |
404 |
34 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Sheffield |
18 |
510 |
303 |
207 |
26 |
Toulouse |
17 |
516 |
224 |
292 |
25 |
Widnes |
18 |
434 |
319 |
115 |
23 |
Bradford |
18 |
421 |
321 |
100 |
22 |
Featherstone |
18 |
464 |
375 |
89 |
18 |
|
Doncaster |
18 |
338 |
432 |
-94 |
17 |
York |
19 |
446 |
383 |
63 |
16 |
Batley |
18 |
300 |
390 |
-90 |
16 |
Halifax |
18 |
356 |
477 |
-121 |
14 |
Barrow |
17 |
279 |
482 |
-203 |
13 |
Swinton |
18 |
346 |
470 |
-124 |
12 |
Whitehaven |
18 |
348 |
580 |
-232 |
12 |
Dewsbury |
19 |
240 |
602 |
-362 |
2 |
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