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FORUMS > Salford Red Devils > Marquee signing |
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| Quote: Ave It! "Kallum played his junior rugby in the same team as Jack Spencer for folly lane, his brother Kash who is now at Swinton was also at Folly. Kallum got moved to Latchford at u16's then got signed by Leeds. He was a ball boy along with Kash at Salford.'"
Kallum played for Langworthy Reds from 8yrs old but was picked up while at Latchford. Granted he did also spend time at Folly
rlhttp://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/kallum-watkins-discusses-reugby-league-6330768rl
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17012_1369957324.jpg [img:2s4u5nxg]http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/The_flying_biscuit/sig2.jpg[/img:2s4u5nxg]
2009..........2010...........2011............2012..........2016..........2017:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17012.jpg |
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| Quote: theredshed "I'm totally perplexed with your response. None of your points are really a counter argument. As for Lee Smith I can think a far better example than him. Kyle Eastmond for one, who'd be a top star in SL now if he's stayed at Saints.
The reason top quality players leave Superleague is not solely for the money, it's because Superleague is now a second rate feeder competition and players want to progress on a much bigger stage. Unless something changes to improve the overall standard and profile we risk losing a lot more of the emerging talent we are working so hard to develop.
I'm sorry if I struck a nerve with the 'feeder competition' comment but the reality is we are.'"
NO you didnt hit a nerve at all you gave one name of Kyle Eastmond to prove your Feeder competition theory.
You then state as "fact" he would have been some kind of Superleague star but thats easy for you to say because we will never know, he was a raw largely unproven St Helens youngster who started out quite brightly as did so many other kids.
You could have said the same about Lee Gaskell if he had then gone to union soon after he burst onto the scene, the fact is he stayed in League and proved he isnt a superstar.
Chris Hill hasn't gone to Union or the NRL despite interest from down under neither has James Roby or Kevin Sinfield MBE, Darryl Clarke isnt off to the NRL or union so I'm struggling to see the feeder competition you speak of.
Gareth Hock Was NRL bound but is still a superleague player. Rangi Chase was linked with St George around the same time and has also been persuaded to stay.
Everyone panicked when all these players were supposedly leaving the feeder league in fact it just ended up being Sam Tomkins, hopless Lee Mossop and squad player Mike cooper(who comes back to wire after his 2 year stint ).
Hardly an Exodus of top talent....but if it helps you believe the league is rubbish then crack on, we are busy signing up 6 more British youngsters on longer deals, while you worry about Lee smith being lost to the game
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| And just like the Antipodeans who come over here saying it wasn't for the money, when our lads go down under its because they want to prove themselves at the top level.
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| All SL clubs have been mandated to have youth development arrangements. But some have been more successful than others. While it is a fact that some clubs have first pick of the crop and that is based on their success, the criteria upon which the youth development arrangements in a club are judged by the RFL are various, and not solely about the activities of the Youth Development department itself.
Alan Hunte, Chris Coop, et al, do a great job, in my opinion. The major criticism the RFL have of Salford's Academy is the disconnect that appears to exist between the Academy and the first team. All Academy products, Fages, Evalds, Hope, J Walne, A Walne, Davidson, Ford, Tyson, Owen all train with the first team. Sort of. There is still an "us and them" mentality about these kids and the, so called, superstars who have been bought in. The path to them becoming regular first team players is anything but clear. Some don't know who or where they will play until, literally, hours before. And while the club buys in players of similar age and ability to themselves, they can't believe their prospects are so good!
I think I mentioned it once before, but on a particular night, Salford, Wigan, Saints and Leeds were playing. My son and I totted up the number of home grown players in each team. Wigan, Saints and Leeds showed 10, 11 and 12. I don't remember which was which, and it doesn't really matter anyway. Salford fielded 2 home grown players!
MK would love to have the support those other clubs attract and some of it is down to there being so many home grown lads. But it's chicken and egg. Show some success, attract enough attention from aspiring young players and you're on your way. The trouble is that Salford is playing catch up and the issue won't be solved overnight.
To those in rugby league who believe that we can invest properly in Youth development AND buy in Marquee players, I would ask where the funding might be found to do both.
To those who believe that the football Premier League is so fantastic, I would ask why our national side is so lamentable. Brazil is nursing its wounds from a disastrous semi final, but as bad as they might have appeared, they still got there, whereas our team failed at the first hurdle. Our rugby league side does the same, for the same reasons.
When we wake up and smell the coffee, we'll realise that we CAN produce high class, competitive rugby league from the talent which is being produced by our amateur clubs. This in turn will lead to bigger crowds and foster greater participation throughout the game. Those benefits will enable a higher salary cap (introduced to try to prevent clubs becoming insolvent, but clearly not meeting that intention) and reduce the attraction of RU and NRL.
And we will have a sufficient pool of players to enable us to beat the antipodeans.
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| Actually both Cashley and Kallum started their rugby at Salford Juniors before the Juniors merged with Eccles. They then went to other clubs when they were a little older. If in doubt ask Adam Neill, he played in the same Salford Juniors team as Kallum.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 1114 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2005 | 20 years | |
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Salary cap - you're havin a laugh.: |
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| Quote: Magic Superbeetle "Funnily, our success in recent years can be described as minimal at best..'"
Yes, them 5 consecutive years where you reached the grand final must have been a hard slog. The salary cap is levelling the playing field though, honest.
Good to see you stuck with your club through such hard times.
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Apr 2007 | 18 years | |
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32990_1435324474.jpg First accept sadness. Realise that without losing 70% of the time, winning wouldn't be such a relief.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_32990.jpg |
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| Quote: the flying biscuit "NO you didnt hit a nerve at all you gave one name of Kyle Eastmond to prove your Feeder competition theory.
You then state as "fact" he would have been some kind of Superleague star but thats easy for you to say because we will never know, he was a raw largely unproven St Helens youngster who started out quite brightly as did so many other kids.
You could have said the same about Lee Gaskell if he had then gone to union soon after he burst onto the scene, the fact is he stayed in League and proved he isnt a superstar.
Chris Hill hasn't gone to Union or the NRL despite interest from down under neither has James Roby or Kevin Sinfield MBE, Darryl Clarke isnt off to the NRL or union so I'm struggling to see the feeder competition you speak of.
Gareth Hock Was NRL bound but is still a superleague player. Rangi Chase was linked with St George around the same time and has also been persuaded to stay.
Everyone panicked when all these players were supposedly leaving the feeder league in fact it just ended up being Sam Tomkins, hopless Lee Mossop and squad player Mike cooper(who comes back to wire after his 2 year stint ).
Hardly an Exodus of top talent....but if it helps you believe the league is rubbish then crack on, we are busy signing up 6 more British youngsters on longer deals, while you worry about Lee smith being lost to the game
I didn't say Superleague was rubbish, they are your words not mine. I said it was a second rate competition (in terms of playing standards and finances compared to the NRL) which it is presently.
The feeder competition remark I make is valid because we have lost three of our best british players and have seen many players over recent years attracted to pastures new. Do we have the three best Australian's playing in Superleague? Or could we attract the three best England rugby Union Internationals? No not a chance.
If you go back to the pre Superleague era and the early part of Superleague we hardly every lost a player to another competition. To name a few quality players we have lost from Superleague since other competitions changed or got financially stronger include:-
Jason Robinson, Andy Farrell, Henry Paul, Iestyn Harris, Shontayne Hape, Stephen Myler, Kyle Eastmond, Joel Tomkins, Adrian Morley, Chris Ashton, Gareth Ellis, James Graham, Lee Mossop, All the Burgess Brothers and Sam Tompkins. Further to this we have also lost to the game some people that would have made potentially decent rugby league coaches such as Farrell, Steadman, Edwards, Ford and Young etc.
By keeping the cap where it is or not introducing a marquee player allowance leaves us extremely vulnerable to many more players leaving in the future. I appreciate not every quality player will be tempted to up sticks but whilst there is a big disparity between salary caps it's only going to get worse. The most depressing part is reading the views of McManus at Saints with is his acceptance to vacate the trenches waving his big white flag. (With a well concealed red 'V' on it)
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Someday, somewhere, today’s empires are tomorrow’s ashes.: |
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| Quote: newgroundb4wakey "
But you could also say that a yes vote was also based on self interest as well.
Remember the the whole idea of the salary cap was to make super league a competition that in theory could be won by any of the teams in it. Apart from the bottom team it has been very equal this year in that from teams 1 to 13 all have on their day been capable of beating any body. If we leave it as it is it will be even better next year with 12 fairly even teams, Bringing in marquee players will destroy what has taken years to evolve as will using devious ways to get round the salary cap. I would be much more likely to travel over to watch Cas away knowing they had an even chance of winning than i would to see an over paid marquee player in a team who had been assembled with scant regard for the cap. I would hope most genuine rugby league fans would wish for the same. As Stevo said on backchat tonight you would have 6 super teams playing each other and the rest would disappear. Seriously is that what you want.'"
I think you're perhaps mixing up the salary cap and the marquee exemption. The salary cap does help even up the competition and should definitely stay, although the fact that it doesn't seem to be rising with inflation is a bit of a concern. The problem with the salary cap, though, is that it restricts the gene pool that clubs can pick players from, because it effectively prevents clubs from bringing in overseas players from the top echelons of the sport, and it hampers efforts to keep hold of the top players we produce over here. As a result, wealthy clubs prey on the less wealthy clubs to plug gaps in their squads. We've seen it happen to us when we were dirt poor, and now we're seeing it happen to Castleford. For all the success you've had this season, you're now losing Sneyd, Hauraki, Huby (probably) and Clark (probably) to wealthier clubs. Now, if we allowed clubs to have one - and only one - player who doesn't count on the salary cap, we aren't being quite so restrictive with our gene pool. We open up the possibility that, for the sake of argument, Warrington would look in the NRL for a hooker, and target, say, Cameron Smith. So, what would give the more even competition: a Warrington with Cameron Smith and a Castleford with Daryl Clark, or a Warrington with Daryl Clark and a Castleford with Scott Moore? Which would you be more likely to travel to watch?
A marquee exemption doesn't necessarily mean a less equal competition.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 1642 | No Team Selected |
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Mar 2003 | 22 years | |
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Someday, somewhere, today’s empires are tomorrow’s ashes.: |
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| Quote: Nankivell "All SL clubs have been mandated to have youth development arrangements. But some have been more successful than others. While it is a fact that some clubs have first pick of the crop and that is based on their success, the criteria upon which the youth development arrangements in a club are judged by the RFL are various, and not solely about the activities of the Youth Development department itself.
Alan Hunte, Chris Coop, et al, do a great job, in my opinion. The major criticism the RFL have of Salford's Academy is the disconnect that appears to exist between the Academy and the first team. All Academy products, Fages, Evalds, Hope, J Walne, A Walne, Davidson, Ford, Tyson, Owen all train with the first team. Sort of. There is still an "us and them" mentality about these kids and the, so called, superstars who have been bought in. The path to them becoming regular first team players is anything but clear. Some don't know who or where they will play until, literally, hours before. And while the club buys in players of similar age and ability to themselves, they can't believe their prospects are so good!
I think I mentioned it once before, but on a particular night, Salford, Wigan, Saints and Leeds were playing. My son and I totted up the number of home grown players in each team. Wigan, Saints and Leeds showed 10, 11 and 12. I don't remember which was which, and it doesn't really matter anyway. Salford fielded 2 home grown players!
MK would love to have the support those other clubs attract and some of it is down to there being so many home grown lads. But it's chicken and egg. Show some success, attract enough attention from aspiring young players and you're on your way. The trouble is that Salford is playing catch up and the issue won't be solved overnight.
To those in rugby league who believe that we can invest properly in Youth development AND buy in Marquee players, I would ask where the funding might be found to do both.
To those who believe that the football Premier League is so fantastic, I would ask why our national side is so lamentable. Brazil is nursing its wounds from a disastrous semi final, but as bad as they might have appeared, they still got there, whereas our team failed at the first hurdle. Our rugby league side does the same, for the same reasons.
When we wake up and smell the coffee, we'll realise that we CAN produce high class, competitive rugby league from the talent which is being produced by our amateur clubs. This in turn will lead to bigger crowds and foster greater participation throughout the game. Those benefits will enable a higher salary cap (introduced to try to prevent clubs becoming insolvent, but clearly not meeting that intention) and reduce the attraction of RU and NRL.
And we will have a sufficient pool of players to enable us to beat the antipodeans.'"
I agree that more effort - much more - needs to be put in to developing players ourselves. It's not good that, realistically, only Saints, Leeds and Wigan are producing enough players to field a first team full of them. Marwan identified the problem early on, and the lack of a pipeline from the academy to the first team was one of the things Shane Flanagan was being brought over to address before visa problems kiboshed it.
However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't still be looking at what happens at the top level. At the moment, the pinnacle of the sport is the NRL and we're a pretty distant second. The disparity is now so large that we're losing a disproportionate number of internationals to the NRL. It weakens the standard of the ESL, and for all the young players we produce, we still have too many drawn to the NRL to better themselves. What can we do to keep them here or to attract top Aussies over in their place? Although, to be honest, I'm pretty neutral about the idea of a marquee exemption (even though I possibly appear always to be arguing in favour of it, it's only because I find the arguments against easier to find fault with), I'm struggling to think of a better idea.
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11969.jpg Me and are kid (TheButcher) putting the world two rights.
ERIC SHAW PREDICTION LEAGUE & PLAY OFFS WINNER 2013
Don't like it? Well Frack off then. Energy & progress for all.
Foe is our friend.
mitie mouse, Lancetodd, Marshy1, eccles star, Dantes Inferno, Philyourboots, biggunbrad, DAVE@CAS1990, RED LEAGUE, OzWelsh, Red-Devils-PAW, newgroundb4wakey
All blocked - Go ahead punk make my day.:11969.jpg |
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22482_1402863561.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_22482.jpg |
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| Quote: Michigan red "They might have rejected the Marquee player idea but here's one I'm looking forward too seeing play.
He's not the same player he was 5 years ago. Barely managed to play half a season in about 4 years as well. You never know though, he might find some form in Super League if he can stay fit.
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26368_1378623782.jpg You know I've always been a dreamer:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_26368.jpg |
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| Quote: Adamjk "He's not the same player he was 5 years ago. Barely managed to play half a season in about 4 years as well. You never know though, he might find some form in Super League if he can stay fit.'"
Actually, about 10 years ago he was really good.
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22482_1402863561.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_22482.jpg |
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| Quote: The Eclipse "Actually, about 10 years ago he was really good.'"
Haha, I was being kind! He scored a few tries at the Cowboys but pretty much peaked during his time at Canterbury.
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32990_1435324474.jpg First accept sadness. Realise that without losing 70% of the time, winning wouldn't be such a relief.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_32990.jpg |
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| Obviously a replacement for Leon Pryce who's off to Hull. One experienced player for another.
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| Going on what Shaun Wane has said about the subject then you would assume Wigan voted against it. Does any one know which teams were in favour ?
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Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1 | | PLD | F | A | DIFF | PTS |
Wigan |
29 |
768 |
338 |
430 |
48 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Hull KR |
29 |
731 |
344 |
387 |
44 |
Warrington |
29 |
769 |
351 |
418 |
42 |
Leigh |
29 |
580 |
442 |
138 |
33 |
Salford |
28 |
556 |
561 |
-5 |
32 |
St.Helens |
28 |
618 |
411 |
207 |
30 |
|
Catalans |
27 |
475 |
427 |
48 |
30 |
Leeds |
27 |
530 |
488 |
42 |
28 |
Huddersfield |
27 |
468 |
658 |
-190 |
20 |
Castleford |
27 |
425 |
735 |
-310 |
15 |
Hull FC |
27 |
328 |
894 |
-566 |
6 |
LondonB |
27 |
317 |
916 |
-599 |
6 |
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1 | | PLD | F | A | DIFF | PTS |
Wakefield |
27 |
1032 |
275 |
757 |
52 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Toulouse |
26 |
765 |
388 |
377 |
37 |
Bradford |
28 |
723 |
420 |
303 |
36 |
York |
29 |
695 |
501 |
194 |
32 |
Widnes |
27 |
561 |
502 |
59 |
29 |
Featherstone |
27 |
634 |
525 |
109 |
28 |
|
Sheffield |
26 |
626 |
526 |
100 |
28 |
Doncaster |
26 |
498 |
619 |
-121 |
25 |
Halifax |
26 |
509 |
650 |
-141 |
22 |
Batley |
26 |
422 |
591 |
-169 |
22 |
Swinton |
28 |
484 |
676 |
-192 |
20 |
Barrow |
25 |
442 |
720 |
-278 |
19 |
Whitehaven |
25 |
437 |
826 |
-389 |
18 |
Dewsbury |
27 |
348 |
879 |
-531 |
4 |
Hunslet |
1 |
6 |
10 |
-4 |
0 |
|