FORUMS > Salford Red Devils > Marquee signing |
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| Quote: theredshed "Like Butcher says above it's OK for McManus not to want change, the sun has shone on him and Saints for many decades with numerous trips to Wembley and the Grand Final. Top quality young players are falling over themselves to sign for them and they have a production line of youngsters waiting in the wings.
McManus isn't stupid and knows that an owner of a club willing to throw mega bucks at a club is a real threat that could impact on their future success.
As I said yesterday the underlying reason for a no vote is based purely on self interests and has nothing else.'"
Funnily, our success in recent years can be described as minimal at best. If young players are signing for us, I'd suggest it's because we offer more kids more opportunities to make it than most others, by investing much of our money into youth (and infrastructure), as opposed signings that potentially would of led to more success.
But of course we can argue all day: does success breed good youth teams or do good youth teams breed success? McManus (and myself) believe the latter before the former - hence the top ratings for Saints academy...
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32990_1435324474.jpg First accept sadness. Realise that without losing 70% of the time, winning wouldn't be such a relief.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_32990.jpg |
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| Quote: Magic Superbeetle "Funnily, our success in recent years can be described as minimal at best'"
Blimey you want to try following Salford our last major trophy was in 1976. Personally I'd respect McManus more if he said he voted no because it could affect St Helens future success rather than dress it up in another disguise.
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Someday, somewhere, today’s empires are tomorrow’s ashes.: |
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| Quote: newgroundb4wakey "So why did Sneyd want to go to Hull rather than return to Salford?'"
I don't understand why a Sneyd Whisperer like you - a man with a direct line into the player's mind - needs to ask such a question, but I'd guess it's because he thought his chances of getting a regular start at Salford next season were limited and he'd be better off elsewhere. He asked for a transfer and Marwan, being the baby eating ogre he is, granted him one.
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Someday, somewhere, today’s empires are tomorrow’s ashes.: |
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| Quote: Magic Superbeetle "Funnily, our success in recent years can be described as minimal at best. If young players are signing for us, I'd suggest it's because we offer more kids more opportunities to make it than most others, by investing much of our money into youth (and infrastructure), as opposed signings that potentially would of led to more success.
But of course we can argue all day
I suspect good youth teams breed success, which in turn breeds good youth teams. It's a virtuous circle which is hard for other clubs to break into when their own young players can be sucked into the other club's virtuous circle. This is how Salfordians like Morley and Watkins end up at Leeds.
Investment in a strong first team is the key to establishing your own virtuous circle, because you need the club - as represented by that first team - to be more attractive in order to foster a better youth squad. Marwan is already on the case with that one.
As for the marquee player, I think we need to separate this out from the argument that it's only good for Salford, which some people seem to make. I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that with the way the squad is building for next year and the way our apparently useless, inexperienced coach has got the current squad absolutely firing, we don't actually [ineed[/i a marquee signing. The principal benefit is that it should help keep some of those young players you're keen on developing in the country. The argument somebody made about Lee Smith is a bit weak. How many of the England World Cup squad don't play in England? How many players lost to the game [icould[/i have been in that squad? Eastmond? Ashton? Well, probably not him, as he's crap, but Burgess for next time? Why do they seek fame and fortune elsewhere? If we want to strengthen the sport in the northern hemisphere, we need a whole range of measures, including better youth set ups, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the marquee player rule as some people are.
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6329_1327085433.jpg ...Diagnosing SBD (Sporting Bipolar Disorder) since 2003...
Negs bringing down the tone of your forum? Keyboard Bell-endery tiresome? Embarrassed by some of your own fans?
Then you need...
TheButcher
I must be STOPPED!!
Vice Chairman of The Scarlet Turkey Clique
Grand Wizard Shill of Nibiru Prime & Dark Globe Champion
Chairman of 'The Neil Barker School for gifted Clowns'
"A Local Forum. For Local People":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6329.jpg |
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| Quote: Magic Superbeetle "But of course we can argue all day
Both.
But only if you can hang onto the ones you want. Top sides can do this, because they're obviously the cherry on top of the cake. Good youth teams belonging to Clubs lower down cannot hang onto them for any length of time. Which means for them, the latter in your argument is a no-no. What's right for one isn't always right for everyone else, and I suppose it never will be.
Perspective can be skewed when you support a team that never has to battle for relegation, or existence. That challenges for the big prize every season. Self-interest is what drives any of these votes from every Club. McManus likes the way things are because it suits Saints. MK wants to give Salford a fighting chance of breaking into the monopoly as soon as possible. That's the reality.
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32641_1503834456.jpg The poor man's bonaire:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_32641.jpg |
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| I thought marwan was ignoring the cap anyway?
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "I thought marwan was ignoring the cap anyway?'"
You should change your name
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| Yes,change it to Rolf.
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33622_1304362610.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33622.jpg |
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| Quote: Red John "I suspect good youth teams breed success, which in turn breeds good youth teams. It's a virtuous circle which is hard for other clubs to break into when their own young players can be sucked into the other club's virtuous circle. This is how Salfordians like Morley and Watkins end up at Leeds.
Investment in a strong first team is the key to establishing your own virtuous circle, because you need the club - as represented by that first team - to be more attractive in order to foster a better youth squad. Marwan is already on the case with that one.
As for the marquee player, I think we need to separate this out from the argument that it's only good for Salford, which some people seem to make. I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that with the way the squad is building for next year and the way our apparently useless, inexperienced coach has got the current squad absolutely firing, we don't actually [ineed[/i a marquee signing. The principal benefit is that it should help keep some of those young players you're keen on developing in the country. The argument somebody made about Lee Smith is a bit weak. How many of the England World Cup squad don't play in England? How many players lost to the game [icould[/i have been in that squad? Eastmond? Ashton? Well, probably not him, as he's crap, but Burgess for next time? Why do they seek fame and fortune elsewhere? If we want to strengthen the sport in the northern hemisphere, we need a whole range of measures, including better youth set ups, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the marquee player rule as some people are.'"
Just a small point, Kallum Watkins lived in Altrincham, and played for Latchford Albion in Warrington.
He was able to sign for Latchford as he didn't live in an area classed as Salford's catchment.
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Someday, somewhere, today’s empires are tomorrow’s ashes.: |
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| Quote: Les Norton "
Just a small point, Kallum Watkins lived in Altrincham, and played for Latchford Albion in Warrington.
He was able to sign for Latchford as he didn't live in an area classed as Salford's catchment.'"
He started playing rugby for Langworthy at under 8 level (or under 12), and later joined Salford as an academy player. Then he got picked up by Leeds.
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7891.jpg Salford RLFC
Folly ARLFC
Good john wilky last looked out
on the pitch at salford.
when the snow lay round about
deep and crisp and even
brightly played the lads that night
though the frost was cruelllll
when poor swinton scored a try
we had 94urrrrrrrrrr:7891.jpg |
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| Quote: Red John "He started playing rugby for Langworthy at under 8 level (or under 12), and later joined Salford as an academy player. Then he got picked up by Leeds.'"
Kallum played his junior rugby in the same team as Jack Spencer for folly lane, his brother Kash who is now at Swinton was also at Folly. Kallum got moved to Latchford at u16's then got signed by Leeds. He was a ball boy along with Kash at Salford.
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32641_1503834456.jpg The poor man's bonaire:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_32641.jpg |
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| Quote: Bonita Red "You should change your name'"
Why?
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| Quote: theredshed "Like Butcher says above it's OK for McManus not to want change, the sun has shone on him and Saints for many decades with numerous trips to Wembley and the Grand Final. Top quality young players are falling over themselves to sign for them and they have a production line of youngsters waiting in the wings.
McManus isn't stupid and knows that an owner of a club willing to throw mega bucks at a club is a real threat that could impact on their future success.
As I said yesterday the underlying reason for a no vote is based purely on self interests and nothing else.'"
But you could also say that a yes vote was also based on self interest as well.
Remember the the whole idea of the salary cap was to make super league a competition that in theory could be won by any of the teams in it. Apart from the bottom team it has been very equal this year in that from teams 1 to 13 all have on their day been capable of beating any body. If we leave it as it is it will be even better next year with 12 fairly even teams, Bringing in marquee players will destroy what has taken years to evolve as will using devious ways to get round the salary cap. I would be much more likely to travel over to watch Cas away knowing they had an even chance of winning than i would to see an over paid marquee player in a team who had been assembled with scant regard for the cap. I would hope most genuine rugby league fans would wish for the same. As Stevo said on backchat tonight you would have 6 super teams playing each other and the rest would disappear. Seriously is that what you want.
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10879_1306320340.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10879.jpg |
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| Quote: Ave It! "Kallum played his junior rugby in the same team as Jack Spencer for folly lane, his brother Kash who is now at Swinton was also at Folly. Kallum got moved to Latchford at u16's then got signed by Leeds. He was a ball boy along with Kash at Salford.'"
Kallum played for Langworthy Reds from 8yrs old but was picked up while at Latchford. Granted he did also spend time at Folly
rlhttp://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/kallum-watkins-discusses-reugby-league-6330768rl
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| Quote: theredshed "I'm totally perplexed with your response. None of your points are really a counter argument. As for Lee Smith I can think a far better example than him. Kyle Eastmond for one, who'd be a top star in SL now if he's stayed at Saints.
The reason top quality players leave Superleague is not solely for the money, it's because Superleague is now a second rate feeder competition and players want to progress on a much bigger stage. Unless something changes to improve the overall standard and profile we risk losing a lot more of the emerging talent we are working so hard to develop.
I'm sorry if I struck a nerve with the 'feeder competition' comment but the reality is we are.'"
NO you didnt hit a nerve at all you gave one name of Kyle Eastmond to prove your Feeder competition theory.
You then state as "fact" he would have been some kind of Superleague star but thats easy for you to say because we will never know, he was a raw largely unproven St Helens youngster who started out quite brightly as did so many other kids.
You could have said the same about Lee Gaskell if he had then gone to union soon after he burst onto the scene, the fact is he stayed in League and proved he isnt a superstar.
Chris Hill hasn't gone to Union or the NRL despite interest from down under neither has James Roby or Kevin Sinfield MBE, Darryl Clarke isnt off to the NRL or union so I'm struggling to see the feeder competition you speak of.
Gareth Hock Was NRL bound but is still a superleague player. Rangi Chase was linked with St George around the same time and has also been persuaded to stay.
Everyone panicked when all these players were supposedly leaving the feeder league in fact it just ended up being Sam Tomkins, hopless Lee Mossop and squad player Mike cooper(who comes back to wire after his 2 year stint ).
Hardly an Exodus of top talent....but if it helps you believe the league is rubbish then crack on, we are busy signing up 6 more British youngsters on longer deals, while you worry about Lee smith being lost to the game
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