FORUMS > Salford Red Devils > Marquee signing |
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| Quote: Nankivell "If the clubs would concentrate on properly developing the talent available in this country, instead of constantly wanting to go for short term fixes, there would be no need for marquee players. At the end of the day, marquee players, which presumably means some big name NRL player, would be mercenaries. They wouldn't be buying into anybody's ideals or philosophies, they would be here for the big buck.
'"
I agree about developing more young players but:-
1. We develop two of arguably the best British players of a generation in Tomkins and Burgess, and where are they playing now? And why did they leave? Because Superleague isn't challenging enough despite further restrictions on overseas players and a huge emphasis on youth development over many years.
2. The bigger clubs have a huge advantage over the others when it comes to attracting the very best young players. (Kind of like football where most of the best young talent want to sign for Man United, Liverpool or Arsenal etc) Plus in the past if clubs like Salford find the odd gem of a player that slips through the net they simply could't keep hold of them once they get on the big boys radar. As was the case with O'Conner, McAvoy, Ratchford, Turner and Myler etc.
3. We are only looking at one marquee player per club to either keep more top players from leaving or to sign the kind of player to enhance the profile of Superleague, raise the standard and potentially put a few more bums on seats.
The situation is the NRL and Rugby Union are leaving Superleague behind and can cherry pick any top quality players we develop. Yes we need to put a lot of effort and resourses in to developing young players but we also need to have a much stronger competition they want to stay in when others come knocking.
If we choose to keep the cap roughly where it is year after year despite the increase in Sky revenue, we are unfortunately only ever going to be a feeder competition for Rugby Union and the NRL. As for players coming for the big buck, why not? Would the English Premier League be the spectacle it is today without all these high paid foreign superstars plying there trade over here?
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| I don't buy all this 'Mercenary' talk with regards to marquee players. Money is one factor in that it secures a players financial future, so is rightly important. We are talking about the top 5% of players with the marquee group who are top 5% because they are professional, dedicated, and focused. The pressure to perform alone should be a big enough driving factor for them to turn out class performances. They'd be under scrutiny that other players wouldn't receive giving them further reason to perform. After all, what world-class player in their right mind would sign as a marquee player then just turn up for a paycheck? The answer is none. Their reputation is further on the line than normal if signed as a marquee player.
It should at least be implemented as a way to immediately stop the rot of our best players leaving our Competition. It would also put pressure on the NRL and RU who are the main beneficiaries. If you turn the table and have a trickle of world-class RU and NRL players going the other way it would at least plug the hole that's leaking and possibly strengthen the SL as a whole.
Too many Clubs see it as a division rather than for what it is. A poster above put it very well in that if wealthy Clubs can't trawl RU and the NRL for stars or retain their own stars they'll take them off the teams that are developing them in the domestic comp. Nobody is winning with the status quo atm.
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| Quote: theredshed "
1. We develop two of arguably the best British players of a generation in Tomkins and Burgess, and where are they playing now? And why did they leave? Because Superleague isn't challenging enough.
The situation is the NRL and Rugby Union are leaving Superleague behind and can cherry pick any top quality players we develop.
If we choose to keep the cap roughly where it is year after year despite the increase in Sky revenue, we are unfortunately only ever going to be a feeder competition for Rugby Union and the NRL.'"
If one of the NRL's biggest and most famous clubs owned by Hollywood legend Russell Crowe cant keep Sam Burgess playing in the NRL how Would Salford keep him in Superleague...?
Plus its not inconceivable that maybe four clubs max could tempt the real big names into Superleague. If they happened to be Sonny Bill, Slater, Inglis, and Hayne, (and probably a few more before you came to Burgess - as i'd rather have James Graham personally.) where would that leave a disgruntled Sam Burgess because no one has picked him up..... still out of Superleague and still off to union. we cant buy them all....!!
And if you think the likes of Lee smith going to some second rate union club is superleague being a feeder for union then I'm amazed. I've not got my head in the sand about the threat from the NRL or Union but the current crop of youngsters knocking about at all clubs is truly amazing from the young hooker and fullback at Catalan to the boy Burgess on the wing at Wigan to 17 year old who scored a hatrick for Hull FC against us at the weekend.
should we lose all these for a 32 year old Cameron Smith on half a mill a year???..... not for me.
throwing good young kids in early is the only thing Superleague has in common with the NRL we shouldn't stop that for anything.
I do think its time the Cap was increased though, you can bet Nigel Wood's had a pay rise in the last few years I think the players deserve one.
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| An obvious way to combat the drain of players too the NRL or RU is a system like the cricket board use where you select a central squad and put them on contracts over and above what the counties (or in our case the clubs) pay them.
Get rid of the separate nations and return to a GB set up too make things less complicated, pretty sure someone like Daryl Clarke who is one of the best young players I've seen in many a year is under the gaze of both the NRL and RU so a central contract too boost his wages would hopefully prevent him jumping ship.
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| Quote: the flying biscuit "Snip'"
I'm totally perplexed with your response. None of your points are really a counter argument. As for Lee Smith I can think a far better example than him. Kyle Eastmond for one, who'd be a top star in SL now if he's stayed at Saints.
The reason top quality players leave Superleague is not solely for the money, it's because Superleague is now a second rate feeder competition and players want to progress on a much bigger stage. Unless something changes to improve the overall standard and profile we risk losing a lot more of the emerging talent we are working so hard to develop.
I'm sorry if I struck a nerve with the 'feeder competition' comment but the reality is we are.
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| Why is it that everyone who opposes a Marquee allowance seems to throw the same old argument that they would rather develop our own youth.You do both.
Has Wigan signing Matty Bowen all of a sudden meant that they have scrapped their youth policy.Off course not.
Wire are signing Simms so their academy is now a thing of the past.Total nonesense.
Allowing each club to have a salary cap exempt player is about promoting the game and making it a more attractive proposition for sponsors,TV and the Fans which would only help the clubs financially in the long run.
They will be better able to retain the very best British talent rather than losing it to NRL or RU.Off course some will still leave for the challenge but more will stay if they can secure a financial future for themselves and their families in this country.
Its about giving the clubs options and oppurtunity to compete financially.
The problem for clubs who do develop quality youngsters is how do you retain them all when their contracts are due for an upgrade yet you are still having to manage the same salary cap.It inevitably means that players are forced out.How many young players who are late developers do we lose to the game because of financial restrictions on the clubs.
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| Quote: JobsForTheWives "Why is it that everyone who opposes a Marquee allowance seems to throw the same old argument that they would rather develop our own youth.You do both.
Has Wigan signing Matty Bowen all of a sudden meant that they have scrapped their youth policy.Off course not.
Wire are signing Simms so their academy is now a thing of the past.Total nonesense.
Allowing each club to have a salary cap exempt player is about promoting the game and making it a more attractive proposition for sponsors,TV and the Fans which would only help the clubs financially in the long run.
They will be better able to retain the very best British talent rather than losing it to NRL or RU.Off course some will still leave for the challenge but more will stay if they can secure a financial future for themselves and their families in this country.
Its about giving the clubs options and oppurtunity to compete financially.'"
Yes and for all the 'so called' big clubs supporters preaching about a successful youth policy, tell me how many have produced their own world class halfbacks since the days of Gregory and Edwards?
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| If the Marquee system is to prevent the drain of players to the NRL and RU then it shouldn't be to allow clubs to sign players. It should only be used on home developed players. The RFL could even rule that all players developed by the club are off cap. This encourages teams to develop their youth. And if the home developed players are off cap, then clubs who have a lot of players they've developed themselves will then have more room under the main cap to pay for big stars.
I get the feeling Marwan wants the marquee player exception so that he can use his financial clout to improve Salford quickly. He doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke happy to wait for investment in youth to pay dividends. That's fair enough I suppose, he wants to use the advantage he sees Salford having over other clubs. But he shouldn't be surprised that other teams don't want to let him just buy his way to success.
I like the central contract system in RU and Cricket as well. The RFL might think there are not enough international games to encourage it though. They'd also have to think what to do with Catalan and France.
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| Quote: rhintintin "If the Marquee system is to prevent the drain of players to the NRL and RU then it shouldn't be to allow clubs to sign players. It should only be used on home developed players. The RFL could even rule that all players developed by the club are off cap. This encourages teams to develop their youth. And if the home developed players are off cap, then clubs who have a lot of players they've developed themselves will then have more room under the main cap to pay for big stars.
I get the feeling Marwan wants the marquee player exception so that he can use his financial clout to improve Salford quickly. He doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke happy to wait for investment in youth to pay dividends. That's fair enough I suppose, he wants to use the advantage he sees Salford having over other clubs. But he shouldn't be surprised that other teams don't want to let him just buy his way to success.
I like the central contract system in RU and Cricket as well. The RFL might think there are not enough international games to encourage it though. They'd also have to think what to do with Catalan and France.'"
I think the problem Marwan Koukash has is due to past financial constraints and the draw the bigger clubs have attracting the best young kids, it leaves Salford way behind other teams. I think as owner of the club with money to spend he wants his team to be as competitive as possible, as soon as possible. I'm sure the club are now investing much more in youth but as Iestyn Harris has said it will be at least 5 years before the club see the benefits of this.
I think the Doc wants a marquee player as a crowd puller to stir more interest in the Salford public and attract some dormant fans back to the club.
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| Quote: theredshed "I think the problem Marwan Koukash has is due to past financial constraints and the draw the bigger clubs have attracting the best young kids, it leaves Salford way behind other teams. I think as owner of the club with money to spend he wants his team to be as competitive as possible, as soon as possible. I'm sure the club are now investing much more in youth but as Iestyn Harris has said it will be at least 5 years before the club see the benefits of this.
I think the Doc wants a marquee player as a crowd puller to stir more interest in the Salford public and attract some dormant fans back to the club.'"
I don't think there is anything like the problem in RL as say Football with big clubs poaching youngsters at a very young age (it tends to be after they break into the first team). And Salford hardly have a terrible recent history of producing players out of their academy. I do hope that there is good money being spend on the youth development at Salford though. If there is then the Doctor should be opening his gob about that a bit more rather than complaining that other clubs are blocking his plans for SL domination! Like I said, he surely can't be surprised that other clubs don't want to be steamrollered by his chequebook.
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| Quote: rhintintin "Quote: rhintintin "I think the problem Marwan Koukash has is due to past financial constraints and the draw the bigger clubs have attracting the best young kids, it leaves Salford way behind other teams. I think as owner of the club with money to spend he wants his team to be as competitive as possible, as soon as possible. I'm sure the club are now investing much more in youth but as Iestyn Harris has said it will be at least 5 years before the club see the benefits of this.
I think the Doc wants a marquee player as a crowd puller to stir more interest in the Salford public and attract some dormant fans back to the club.'"
And Salford hardly have a terrible recent history of producing players out of their academy. '"
Ah - but what we do produce is quality - Ratchford, Turner, Sneyd etc
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| Quote: Early Bath "Ah - but what we do produce is quality - Ratchford, Turner, Sneyd etc'"
Lol. I thought I was being clear. I agree, I was saying that Salford have had a pretty decent recent history of producing good players.
The Sneyd one is interesting though. Wouldn't you rather have have kept Sneyd rather than signed Dobson? Right now I'd be pretty gutted if we lost Clark from Cas even if Cameron Smith was coming the other way.
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| Quote: rhintintin "Good statement from McManus btw
He says"We should be concentrating our investment resource in our own front yards and prioritise long-term investment in our own British talent. '"
And today he signs a 27 year old Tongan from London Broncos who managed 22 NRL appearances in 5 years.
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| Quote: rhintintin "Good statement from McManus btw
Trouble is, Saints sit in the top four Clubs in the Comp. Financially secure with a decent conveyor belt of youth trickling through. They have pull with potential players due to their recent successes. Of course McManus wants the status Quo because Saints sit comfortably in their own security. They are a Club that can attract big names from abroad on reputation alone. They can also plunder lower teams of their best talent to bolster themselves. The question is how does carrying on with things as they are benefiting those outside of the top four? I'm not saying the Marquee player is the answer either, just that it's going to be in the interests of a top Club to keep things how they are. They attract the best available from Oz, Youngsters want to sign for them, and they can cherry-pick the best talent from Clubs below them. Whereas lower Clubs struggle to hang onto their best talent and cannot compete. Look at Cas this season. They've been stand-out. They are facing the reality of that teams core being broken up for next season. It makes a successful season like Cas has, really difficult to use as a platform for further success.
Like I said, maybe the Marquee signing isn't the answer, but it would maybe allow Cas to knock off their highest earner from the cap and bring in a couple of new players or spread the freed-up cap money on better wages/contracts for current players. Or after a successful season like they've had get a quality player in. A marquee player could even be partly or fully funded by an external sponsor or sponsors.
I think a raising of the cap would be the most sensible option. It gives Clubs a fighting chance at retaining top talent and maybe attracting the odd world-class player from Oz. It still doesn't address how difficult it is for a team to transition from supplier to becoming one who demands, but I don't think there is going to be an answer that suits everyone.
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