Why the 'aside from money' stipulation? That's ultimately the difference between the top and bottom of the league.

Money + being well run = success. Fail to have either one of those and you are in trouble. We don't have money so we need to be well run which we are not. Surely you can see that some element of bad leadership is hindering us further than the difficult money situation?

Leeds had plenty of money for years and years in the 70s, 80s and 90s and won frig all. Along comes Hetherington with some sound ideas and a plan (imagine that) for improving things and hey presto.

And are you seriously saying that the likes of Wakefield and Castleford have that much more cash than we do that enables them to get to the play-offs, cup sembo's and generally be far more competitive than us??

Wigan Noble failure Mcguire Success "same resourses"
Warrington Cullen failure Smith success "same resourses"
Catalan Walters failure Robinson success "same resourses"

All operating on a full salary cap, I believe?

Can a club be considered well run when:

- Crowds have failed to increase over a period when the overall league's average crowd has almost doubled?
- Websites have been left out of date for long periods?
- It constantly has issues over availability and quality of merchandise (income stream)?
- Customers regularly complain about not having phones answered, messages replied to or emails replied to?
- It can't (be d to?)organise or carry out minutes silences?
- It produces a season ticket/membership offering and promotional material that results in pages of people trying to work out what it actually costs?
- Keeps coaches in place well beyond their useful life?
- Signs unfit/injured players?
- Relies on players going to different gyms in different places to do gym work?

That's off the top of me head - I'm sure theres more. Most of those are not money/cost issues - just issues with being more professional and changing how things are done.

But they were in the same boat with failures, whats the relavance of their salary cap ? they were s*it, now they are good !

Clue.... It's the people within the organisation

Well ill happily swap shoes with Huddersfield & Hull wouldn't you?

The thing is Salford have been happy over years just to plod on and not make any progress look at KR getting promoted a few seasons back and are now fighting for play offs, Castleford (on field), Huddersfield etc they have all come on massively over the past few seasons and then look at where we are.

We have finished in the playoffs once and as parish said its not good enough. Don't give me all this bull about not being spending the full salary cap I fully accept we don't operate on the full amount but neither do Castleford, and surely KR didn't when they first came up (they probably still don't) and look the progress between them and it is huge.

For years and years we have been told lie after lie by the club with regards to signings,stadium, etc and its has done nothing but upset and disappoint fans and you can not blame them for wanting change.

I know for a fact (and now I cant say how) that two of those players did NOT undergo medicals before they signed if anyone finds that acceptable then that's your choice. Simms is a waste of space yes he may care about the club as Wilky says but ffs I Love the club but that doesn't give me the right to get a job with the club, so why should it with Simms?

We only survived because we have a shiny new stadium and the only other tentative link is that we are the only club in the Salford/Manchester area.
Come the next round of franchises if we are still at the bottom with low crowds then we will be out.