i honestly believe that if the AJ Bell was built in the same location as the willows we would be hitting much higher crowds. For me we have moved a business away from its core customers and with that people have/will drop off. Want evidence? Look at Swinton when they moved to gig lane, look at sale when they moved, Coventry City dropped massively when they moved. History seems to be littered with clubs where this has happened, partly because people feel the their "local" club has gone and partly because you lose so much passing and local trade. Lets face it people cant be ar$ed commuting ten miles to a club that used to be on their doorstep.

I’m not convinced, and I’m from Weaste. I just think for some it’s too far out of ‘proper’ Salford. Sounds daft but that sentiment does exist east of Eccles.

I am probably speaking out of turn but that sort off comments puts me right off!

I was never at the Willows but from reading here for a few years, people seem to have a tinted memory of what appeared to be a ramshackle, with roofs caving in and toilets that where a wall to pee against. Going by what I read, similiar to the make a mend jungle ( where by their own admission, visiting teams refuse to use the away changing rooms).

There appears to be a group memory of workers clocking off at 5, walking to the pub, having a few, walking to the stadium watching some rugby, back to the pub for a few more and home. I am in my 40's but I can never rememember that working utopia ( but nor can I remember 13 year olds down the pits). Similar to comments about building a new stadium, seemingly ignoring the fact that the land in a central location would cost £20m with a similar amount to build a stadium.

My point being, the old idea of following a club rooted in the community no longer exists. A SL club is a business, it relies on coporate, it relies on those shelling out for the padded seats, it relies on people buying merchsndise; it no longer relies on those living next door. While it may wants numbers, the ones who think £18 is expensive and refuse to buy a pint are not what make a club money. Like it or not , those who shell out £40 a ticket and are happy to pay over the odds for a beer or 3 are the people who make a club viable.

All of which leads me back to original post. I am a season ticket holder with Sale, being from NI I only knew RU until recently, I have went to a few Salford games ( and been able\lucky to afford for the posh seats) and enjoyed RL more than most RU games, while people like the poster above or Martin Vickers decide to label this Irish Council House boy as posh, I'll spend my money somewhere I feel welcome.

I am quite new to this forum, but have read it for years and my honest thoughts are fans of RL often do more harm to a great sport than they know. I am prob the type of person RL needs to attract, am certainly in the ABC1 advertising category, think RL is a better spectacle but for a more enjoyable match experience I renewed my more expensive Sale Season ticket. I will buy a few Salford tickets when am free, will follow them and hope they go well, but the match day experience is more down to the fans than the club. When the 2000 core fans get that right, then people like me will attend more.
Sorry , bit of a rant, but been thinking about it a lot deciding what ticket to buy.

"think RL is a better spectacle but for a more enjoyable match experience I renewed my more expensive Sale Season ticket"

As we both share the same stadium and therefore must have similar structures and pre/post match places in which to relax, can you explain why the Sale experience is better. We may learn from this.

Interesting post but I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the 2000 core fans getting it right? Are you suggesting the fans aren't helping to sell/promote the club and contribute to a negative atmosphere around the place, or do you mean something else?

While I'm not a fan of RU at all, I have played both codes and watched both codes. I'm reminded of a story my Dad was telling me about going to watch Sale at Edgeley Park, years ago when I was out of the country working.

A neighbour of his had got free tickets to see Sale V Leicester at the time where the likes of Jason Robinson was tearing it up. He agreed to go on a really poor night where it was lashing down. As they were queuing to get in there was a cheer from the stands, apparently someone had scored. He then proceeded to watch what he said was the dreariest, unexciting eighty minutes of Rugby he'd ever seen. Missing the games only try after nipping to the bog.

Regardless of this, he said the fans and spectators were the nicest people he'd ever watched a sporting event with. Chatty, knowledgeable, and very friendly.

Having grown up watching RL even I can see that, although RL fans are on the whole friendly sorts, they are not entirely welcoming either. I think a lot of it comes down to Northern tribalism where we're segregated into pigeon-hole communities with their own identities. This is not me having a go at that, just the way it is. As a kid I grew up in Stockport, and when I went to play for Oldham StAnnes I almost had to put my whole body on the line to be accepted into the Oldham community. Once accepted as one of their own, you get to understand as an outsider, that the community and the RL mentality go hand in hand. I can see it to a lesser degree with RL fans on the terraces. As an outsider trying to become part of a settled and old system, in a sport born and forever associated with politics and the history of the Labour movement, it can be hard to feel part of it. Or at least to be welcomed into it.

I suppose it depends on the person, after all, there's plenty of us hardcore supporters that are not Salfordians. It maybe good for us as Salford and RL supporters to be more amicable and open to those making their first tentative steps to our great game.

So you never went to the Willows, but you're willing to slag it off so readily? I'm guessing you've never been to Wheldon Road, either (that's the proper name for the ground you've even got the sponsor's name wrong for) but feel fit to slag that off.

There's nothing wrong with Wheldon Road. There wasn't a lot wrong with the Willows. The roof on the Shed could have been re-done, the terracing in general needed repointing and, yes, the bogs needed sorting. But they were all things that could have been done quite easily with modern technology. I believe plans were even submitted to the club for a re-designed Main Stand, brought closer to the pitch, with better changing rooms and up-to-date press facilities. The problem was that the club had seemingly decided they wanted out of Weaste, no questions asked.

I'm not someone who believes in the corporate ethic of sport. I don't like the idea of traditional supporters being squeezed out in favour of those willing to pay double the current asking price for a ticket. I also can't grasp the notion of people only going to watch a team because of the facilities or "experience". I go to watch the sport and the team I support. That's the same for those of us who go week in, week out and have done for years. Face it, if it was all about the facilities and experience then none of us would ever have bothered in the first place. And every lower league club going, be it league, union, football, cricket or any other sport would have no spectators at all. Funnily enough, that's not the case. I wonder why?

No one is harking back to a working or sporting utopia. I don't think anyone has claimed such a thing exists. As for idea of a club rooted in the community no longer existing, what utter nonsense. Look at clubs' community initiatives. Look at the increase in supporter involvement and ownership in football. You average person wants to watch a club that they feel a part of, not some corporate monstrosity that rolls on like a money machine without giving much of a toss about the average punter.

A lot of people have drifted away from Salford RLFC because they no longer feel a part of the club. Whether that's because of the way in which the club was run in the last few years Wilkinson was in charge, whether it's because we're in a shiny, box-like stadium that's located out on a limb, whether it's because people are fed up of rash promises from the current regime that aren't backed up by what happens out on the pitch ("this will never happen again"icon_wink.gif or any other reason you care to think of, it isn't because the club need to target people who don't like the traditional matchday experience, people who would prefer to spend 30 to 40 notes to sit down rather than stand, or those that think watching Salford would be better if the 2,000 of us who have been here through thick and thin changed all of our ways.



It may also help if those new to the game didn't start off by going on the attack towards existing supporters who've helped keep the club alive. I'm not a Salfordian and I'm a 'fairly' new convert to the sport (2002), but when I was brought along I was never made to feel unwelcome by anyone.

By the way, by my understand, Salford get nothing for beer and food sales, something which has been confirmed a few times before. So buying a beer or three doesn't make the club any more viable. It puts more money in the SMC's pocket instead.

Hey, I was just making a single point about something. I wasn't casting a huge blanket over everyone and everything Salford. Which is why I said it depends on the individual and I can understand why SOME new people COULD struggle to feel welcome. Some will probably fit right in, but not everyone is the same was the point I was trying to make.

I know, I know. I was just responding to your single point with one of my own. It does help when you have people who bring you along in the first place, but someone who's new to the sport and club coming in all guns blazing doesn't do themselves any favours in the "feeling welcome" department. There's a whole discussion around the reasons why people don't come, which we've been over and over countless times before. This latest can of worms seems more like a red herring, to be honest.

Sorry, I'm double posting a lot recently, but I've just found this: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=577431&p=18007643#p18007643 So - people shouldn't complain at £19 for a Challenge Cup tie and people like him paying more money are who we need to be looking at, but £20 for a charity game in support of a murdered man's family was "crazy?" I'll leave that there and slink off (he's been at it on the VT, too)...

Sorry, I'm double posting a lot recently, but I've just found this: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=577431&p=18007643#p18007643 So - people shouldn't complain at £19 for a Challenge Cup tie and people like him paying more money are who we need to be looking at, but £20 for a charity game in support of a murdered man's family was "crazy?" I'll leave that there and slink off (he's been at it on the VT, too)...

And there I rest my case!

I very clearly stated I didn't have the opportunity to visit, I clearly said from what I read and I also said in my opinion is is to do with attitude towards people like me who enjoy the game and would like to more but feel a bit exiled when I have went and GT pops up with an incredible attack on someone stating their thoughts as if It is my fault.

GT typifies why I could easy attend more but don't, the previous poster made some points that struck home, apart from assuming I wasn't part of the labour movement. While I may not always vote Labour until rececently I was the regional convenor for 5000 unison members.

Maybe it is because I don't yet get all the rules in RL as opposed to union, maybe my downfall has been to ask those sat beside me why that and not this, but if that is the issue, I am instantly cast as some RU posh boy (with a N Irish accent) and assumptions made. Surely they must be more like me, and if RL wants and should grow you need to grab them! Make them feel at home, make them want to buy a season ticket for that seat?

To be fair I have never felt unwelcome at a Salford game, just never felt that welcome either.