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| FORUMS > Salford Red Devils > Franchise |
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Well, getting back to the original question... The only way you'll get a superleague not dominated by the bigger clubs is to ensure everybody operates on a financially level playing field. This is obviously far from the case at present, with clubs like the pies and wire being able to spend the full cap, and still have funds a plenty for other activities (scouting etc) and clubs like ours, who aren't able to spend the full cap.
What franchising should have done was to encourage longer term planing by existing clubs, and for clubs pushing for promotion to have long term, sustainable plans for entry, for one reason or another, it hasn't worked.
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So we should all be made to spend the same on the cap so we should be forced to lose quality player like Sam Tomkins, Josh Charnley and Gaz Hock to NRL or RU just because other teams can't operate at our level?? Instead of complaining about how all teams should be made to operate at same level clubs like Salford should aspire to get to our level not pull us down to yours!! The cap should be increased not decreased, its never been increased since its introduction.
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| Quote: JCWWRL "None of the schools in area played RL despite your academy actually being at one of those schools. And no I'm saying you missed out on a superstar but surely its your responsibility to get the game played/watched by youngsters in the area and you do nothing to help. I've never seen any advertisements by Salford in local newspapers for up coming games and because I went to the last game The Willows I keep getting free tickets for the majority of games this season, why are these going to someone who has paid before?? I do actually go to Salford games when you don't play same day as Wigan or can't make it to away games because of work and would pay for these games but when I can go free why would I pay?? Surely after I've been to 1 game free it should stop or perhaps go to half price then full price.'"
As you can see I also live in Prestwich.
My son played RL at his school and local reps from Salford were present at these games.
The problem was and always has been retaining peoples interest.
It all starts out well but you tend to find numbers dwindle as other sports take these possible future players.
Football is king in this area and Sedgley Park get all the kids who do want to play rugby(the wrong type I might add) as they have a very professional well run youth section.
Bury Broncos have done a sterling job in the area and now have youth teams but it all takes time and a hell of a lot of dedication from those involved.
My family all support Salford and a lot more in Prestwich do the same.
I could have took the easy option and supported Wigan or Saint Helens but chose Salford (well they chose me) and I savour every victory we have.
Enjoy your time watching Wigan why not jump on the bandwagon with City just to complete things. | | |
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| Quote: JCWWRL "So we should all be made to spend the same on the cap so we should be forced to lose quality player like Sam Tomkins, Josh Charnley and Gaz Hock to NRL or RU just because other teams can't operate at our level?? Instead of complaining about how all teams should be made to operate at same level clubs like Salford should aspire to get to our level not pull us down to yours!! The cap should be increased not decreased, its never been increased since its introduction.'"
Yes because you would end up with the scenario where one team dominates for several years and the game is left to wither and die beneath them. Hardly the ideal that the RFL and the people involved want when it is trying to grow the game.
Many teams have aspired to be Wigan and spent money they haven't got, took a gamble and lost their home (remind you of any one?) The salary cap is not only there to incentivize those lower down the league to build from bottom up, whilst exercising prudence with the threat of punishment for breaching the cap, but it is also there to ensure that those teams who can meet the cap such as yourselves don't just sign up all the young talent to stop others | | | |
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Who have we just gone out and signed?? If we produce them through our academy we should have every right to keep them and pay them whatever we think is right. Rest of SL should thank us most other club have had or have products of our academy playing for them!
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| Quote: JCWWRL "Who have we just gone out and signed?? If we produce them through our academy we should have every right to keep them and pay them whatever we think is right. Rest of SL should thank us most other club have had or have products of our academy playing for them!'"
Danger Troll alert, Troll alert. | | | |
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| Quote: JCWWRL "Who have we just gone out and signed?? If we produce them through our academy we should have every right to keep them and pay them whatever we think is right. Rest of SL should thank us most other club have had or have products of our academy playing for them!'"
Quick history lesson for you, when you had your annual trips to wembley your last one you would have been 5, Wigan were the only full time club in the league, akin to United playing in the same league as FC United now and wondering why they are winning everything. The problem was the crowds that Wigan had coming through the gates were not covering all the wages, the plan was to win everything every year to maintain the income. Salford spoiled this plan and the result was, Wigan played across code game to try and raise revenue but it was to no avail. Wigan were on the verge of going out of business in the mid 90's they were £4m in the red and only Tesco coming in and buying Central Park paid off this debt, then Dave Whelan stepped in, then during the period of Super League Wigan have been the team caught most often paying beyond the cap, (they may still be doing it now) currently they can afford to, but they don't own their own ground so no real assets and they could quite easily end up broke again if the finances don't add up or if Mr Whelan decides the DW is not going to be used for Rugby League, he could bump up the rent and make it not viable or affordable for Wigan to play there and still pay the same high wages. Stating that the cap should be higher leads to loads of problems and Wigan's history points to as does some of the clubs in Yawnian who are now having problems with cashflow.
PS I support United as well despite family members being on city's books years ago, but United are my local club, I even was employed by city in the 90's. | | |
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| Quote: JCWWRL "Start producing your own players 1st. All players your losing are over seas or from other clubs.'"
Firstly Wigan are a top club playing fantastic Rugby League on a regular basis.
Over the years they have produced some of the best players around, too many for one club hence lots of them keep moving on.
Salford have now in place their best set up for young players ever, it's taken a long time and thanks to the perseverance of the club and Alan Hunte and his team we seem to be(are) producing some excellent young talented players.
Some of these will eventually move on to other clubs, others will stay that is how the system works and has done for many years.
Why didn't Salford sign Betts, Morley,Watkins, Hansen etc ? money and the ability to go to a bigger,wealthier club which paid off for all these players and good luck to them.
Judging by your age, in rugby league supporters terms you are relatively young and as you get older you will reflect on some of the points that you have raised and hopefully realize that not all clubs can be a Wigan, not all clubs want to be a Wigan and there are still areas in the country where there is a bias against RL and it is difficult in some areas for RL Clubs to get into schools,was that the case in your area?
I know of one primary school in our area(of Salford)a couple of years ago who were asked by the City Reds about them providing some coaching, the headteacher turned the request down as it was felt that RL was too rough, I'll bet that that has never happened in Wigan.
Times are changing, slowly but surely and when RL has the same access to all schools that other sports have everyone will reap the benefit. | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
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| Quote: JCWWRL "So we should all be made to spend the same on the cap so we should be forced to lose quality player like Sam Tomkins, Josh Charnley and Gaz Hock to NRL or RU just because other teams can't operate at our level??'"
Absolutely, if you want a level playing field... I have a feeling, you don't!
Quote: JCWWRL "Salford should aspire to get to our level'"
Absolutely, is anyone suggesting otherwise?
Quote: JCWWRL "The cap should be increased not decreased, its never been increased since its introduction.'"
Why not just get rid of the cap? Strengthen the top, weaken the bottom, gotta be good for the sport that! In all honesty, with so many clubs with financial woes its a terrible idea. Other clubs would be forced to spend more to compete, money they haven't got.
Anyhow, none of this is addressing whether or not the franchising system has helped clubs lower down the table... clearly it hasn't, yet although there are signs. | | |
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So you think we need to lower the standard of the bigger clubs to let the smaller clubs have a chance?? Oh yeah that'll help the sport grow when we lose our best players to other codes just to make it fair for the clubs that aren't good enough to compete with us!! Also I'd love Whelan to tell us to leave the DW seeing as its in the 100 year tenancy lease that if we are forced to leave Wigan Athletic have to build us a stadium that'll meet our requirements accoring to the rumors I've heard.
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JC rumours a good album by Fleetwood Mac, DW can do what he wants with his property and these covenants can be easily overturned, I prefer facts myself to rumours heard on the terrace.
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| Quote: JCWWRL "None of the schools in area played RL despite your academy actually being at one of those schools. And no I'm saying you missed out on a superstar but surely its your responsibility to get the game played/watched by youngsters in the area and you do nothing to help. I've never seen any advertisements by Salford in local newspapers for up coming games and because I went to the last game The Willows I keep getting free tickets for the majority of games this season, why are these going to someone who has paid before?? I do actually go to Salford games when you don't play same day as Wigan or can't make it to away games because of work and would pay for these games but when I can go free why would I pay?? Surely after I've been to 1 game free it should stop or perhaps go to half price then full price.'"
I didn't get time to respond to this last night as I was busy having a life but now I've got a few minutes again, I'll just respond to your glib comment at the start of this post, some parts of which have been addressed by others earlier in this thread.
It 'surely'[i isn't [/ithe responsibility of Salford RLFC to get the game played in the area and especially schools, that's the responsibility of the RFL with their community development officers and willing school teacher volunteers. You said that none of the schools in the area played RL, did it ever occur to you to find out why?
Maybe because football & RU have always been the dominant sports in schools in and around Manchester and Salford, indeed, when I was in high school my PE teacher played in the same Salford team as Watkins, Fielding, Hesketh etc. yet we had to play RU because the Head (and said PE teacher) were steeped in the RU culture. All the other schools in our area played football.
Moving on to now, it would take a gargantuan amount of money (I'm talking in the low millions here), time and effort to just get all the schools in, say, Salford playing schools RL to a decent standard at every age level, even then it might never happen as the tremendous pull of football with all its billions and the top two Premiership clubs is so strong that kids simply choose not to play RL. Why do you think a private business should have responsibility to do this and where the hell would they find the money? As an aside, even if they did have the money why would they invest it on such a risky and speculative venture that might never return the outlay or directly benefitted their competitors?
Contrast this with Wigan, where the default position is that every school, including most primarys, plays RL. This in turn feeds the numerous amatuer clubs in the area and produces a rich vein of talent on their own doorstep - Wigan don't have to spend any time, money and resource developing players as there's a non-stop conveyor belt. Given that, it's amazing that Wigan feel the need to have any expensive Aussie imports or indeed feel the need to lure amateur players from outside the Wigan service area to go and play for them, e.g. Hansen, Luke Robinson etc.
Next time you make a throw away comment, make sure you have some facts to support your theories.  | | |
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| Quote: JCWWRL "So we should all be made to spend the same on the cap so we should be forced to lose quality player like Sam Tomkins, Josh Charnley and Gaz Hock to NRL or RU just because other teams can't operate at our level?? '"
No you wouldn't have to lose them, Wigan could pay half their wages and they could make the short journey to Salford on a two year loan deal! Still be your players technically 
No seriously If you look at the format of Superleague since 1998 there have been only 4 different winners and only 5 different teams contesting the final. Compare this to the NRL in the same period and there have been 9 different winners and 12 different clubs who have appeared in the Aussie Grand Final. Why? A more level playing field.
Go back further in the british game and history shows there has only been the same 4 winning clubs in the past 23 years. Was the british game not more interesting between the early 70's to the early 80's when there was 10 different winning clubs over 12 seasons? Is it any coincidence that it all changed when Hull and Wigan started to pay big money for overseas stars?
Personally I believe the share of success makes the NRL a far more interesting competition and helps to keep all supporters of RL in Australia more interested.
In SL Bradford’s demise will be Warrington’s gain and all that will happen now is Warrington will replace the Bulls in this small pool of teams with any realistic chance of glory. Maybe Catalan could sneak in?
Can you not understand the argument that the same teams predictably winning or reaching finals year after year has a negative effect on the sport and switches many more off than it attracts to the game?
I put it down to the british culture in sport of greed, ego’s and a win at all costs mentality year after year. This is the very reason we as a nation are now so poor at International level because our sports are filled with foreign players that stifle the development of our youngsters.
Professional teamsport in the UK isn’t all about who’s got the best coached team or who works hardest it’s about who’s got the biggest cheque book. | | |
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God, typical bigoted Wigan fans like this make me wish even more that the pie-eaters had got relegated the other year. Remember, when they brought in those local lads Fielden and Dobson to keep them up, breaking the salary cap in the process...
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Quote: JCWWRL "Well seeing as I said my cousin played for Wigan and thats why I grew up supporting them it really can't be too difficult to put it together and realise Denis is my cousin.'"
is your surname Purton?
Quote: JCWWRL "Why would i want to ask their opinion when I have my own? Also I did used to go watch Darren play for the "A" team but I don't really have many clear moments of those games as I was very young at the time (I'm 22 now) so most memories of RL as a kid are the big games at Central Park and what seemed the annual trip down to Wembley. I went to school in Prestwich and your academy(?) is at Phillips High School and at the time your 1st team were training at Sedgley Park RU but despite being so close to them and there being 3 high schools and many primary schools within that area Salford never once came into my school or any others in the area that I know of, infact Sedgley Park RU a semi-pro/amateur team did more around the schools and community. Maybe if you'd come into those schools where I know there was alot of people interested in the game but didn't have a real understanding of it you'd be in a better position with support. And why have you only now gone back to the red devil surely that is your biggest marketable claim?? That the most famous Football team in the world took its nickname from you.'"
As for in-school delivery...
RFL structures and funding pre-determines the delivery in schools. As Chair of Bury Broncos i have a pretty good understanding of how it all works...
Delivery locally is done by the (very good) Jenny Welsby (see: www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybronc ... 28104.html) who is part funded by Swinton, the Councils and the RFL. Bury and East Lancs is Swinton's 'patch' in terms of delivery and hence the arrangement. Salford's 'patch' is Manchester, Salford and Trafford. Wigan's patch is Wigan, extending into Chorley and as an example, Leigh's patch is Bolton.
This year in Bury we have had:
Tag tournaments open to all Yr 4, 5, 6 kids in Prestwich/Whitefield/Radcliffe
Invites to all Bury schools to enter high school girls tag - an Ok number entered
Invites to all Bury schools to enter Yr 7, Yr 8, Yr 9, and Yr 10 boys tournaments - around 6 teams entered at each age group (including Philips, Parrenthorn and Castlebrook)
Starting next Thursday - the 'Bury Academy' will start training - these are U15s and U13s selected from the school tournaments to play in two rep games against East Lancs - Salford will be there to watch by the way. See: www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybronc ... 92400.html
As it happens, Philips High Yr 10 have reached the final of the North West Development Schools cup (and ps. a number of lads in that team are on Salford scholarship, switching to league form RU). oh, and a Bury primary school won last years Greater Manchester youth games at Rugby League.
As said above - the delivery structures of the RFL mean different clubs cover different areas hence way you will not formally see Salford doing in-school delivery in Bury schools. That said, we as a club have a very good informal arrangement - we train/play on the same pitches next to each other, share storage space etc. at Philips with the Scholarships. The fact is that Salford helped broker our move to Philips - and given we had no-where to play this was critical (we wouldnt have been able to expand into junior sides without a base!). Since that move we've gone from one open age team to two, and a U11 team, and a U9 team and a U7s holding group...and a U15 and U13 Academy!
Through informal links, Salford do do bits in Bury - Parrenthorn have attended games and played on the pitch at half-time and if you look at the Philips High School PE kit (see pic here: images.pitchero.com/ui/220772/1336748768_0.jpg) you will see the Bury Broncos logo on the right arm, Salford's on the left... Salford (and Swinton) are letting the Broncos attend games this year to raise profile of junior sides.
All in all, they do what they can given it's not their patch. |
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Quote: JCWWRL "Well seeing as I said my cousin played for Wigan and thats why I grew up supporting them it really can't be too difficult to put it together and realise Denis is my cousin.'"
is your surname Purton?
Quote: JCWWRL "Why would i want to ask their opinion when I have my own? Also I did used to go watch Darren play for the "A" team but I don't really have many clear moments of those games as I was very young at the time (I'm 22 now) so most memories of RL as a kid are the big games at Central Park and what seemed the annual trip down to Wembley. I went to school in Prestwich and your academy(?) is at Phillips High School and at the time your 1st team were training at Sedgley Park RU but despite being so close to them and there being 3 high schools and many primary schools within that area Salford never once came into my school or any others in the area that I know of, infact Sedgley Park RU a semi-pro/amateur team did more around the schools and community. Maybe if you'd come into those schools where I know there was alot of people interested in the game but didn't have a real understanding of it you'd be in a better position with support. And why have you only now gone back to the red devil surely that is your biggest marketable claim?? That the most famous Football team in the world took its nickname from you.'"
As for in-school delivery...
RFL structures and funding pre-determines the delivery in schools. As Chair of Bury Broncos i have a pretty good understanding of how it all works...
Delivery locally is done by the (very good) Jenny Welsby (see: www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybronc ... 28104.html) who is part funded by Swinton, the Councils and the RFL. Bury and East Lancs is Swinton's 'patch' in terms of delivery and hence the arrangement. Salford's 'patch' is Manchester, Salford and Trafford. Wigan's patch is Wigan, extending into Chorley and as an example, Leigh's patch is Bolton.
This year in Bury we have had:
Tag tournaments open to all Yr 4, 5, 6 kids in Prestwich/Whitefield/Radcliffe
Invites to all Bury schools to enter high school girls tag - an Ok number entered
Invites to all Bury schools to enter Yr 7, Yr 8, Yr 9, and Yr 10 boys tournaments - around 6 teams entered at each age group (including Philips, Parrenthorn and Castlebrook)
Starting next Thursday - the 'Bury Academy' will start training - these are U15s and U13s selected from the school tournaments to play in two rep games against East Lancs - Salford will be there to watch by the way. See: www.pitchero.com/clubs/burybronc ... 92400.html
As it happens, Philips High Yr 10 have reached the final of the North West Development Schools cup (and ps. a number of lads in that team are on Salford scholarship, switching to league form RU). oh, and a Bury primary school won last years Greater Manchester youth games at Rugby League.
As said above - the delivery structures of the RFL mean different clubs cover different areas hence way you will not formally see Salford doing in-school delivery in Bury schools. That said, we as a club have a very good informal arrangement - we train/play on the same pitches next to each other, share storage space etc. at Philips with the Scholarships. The fact is that Salford helped broker our move to Philips - and given we had no-where to play this was critical (we wouldnt have been able to expand into junior sides without a base!). Since that move we've gone from one open age team to two, and a U11 team, and a U9 team and a U7s holding group...and a U15 and U13 Academy!
Through informal links, Salford do do bits in Bury - Parrenthorn have attended games and played on the pitch at half-time and if you look at the Philips High School PE kit (see pic here: images.pitchero.com/ui/220772/1336748768_0.jpg) you will see the Bury Broncos logo on the right arm, Salford's on the left... Salford (and Swinton) are letting the Broncos attend games this year to raise profile of junior sides.
All in all, they do what they can given it's not their patch. | |
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