I think if were being honest people have found Hock guilty already based on his quite obvious previous.

The one persons take I would kill to find out on this is Noble as from what you read when he was GB coach he was quite the disciplinarian. I do sometimes wonder if Hock coming was as much the Doc as Noble but there's nothing to support that but my suspicions.

Agreed he was responsible for a number of penalties against italy, i doubt brett ferres will eb in the side though, they will have ologhlin at 13, burgress moving to 2nd row for hock i would think

Even before the kicking out the talk was he or farrell wouldnt be selected anyway in favor of the above

Other players were involved. But only one player failed to turn up for training because of it.

That isn't double standards, it's the way things work. Hock wasn't kicked out for the indiscretion, but the add on to it.

Don't have a problem with team discipline, it is essential. Two things that strike me though, firstly let us wait until we know the facts before commenting on the punishment. Secondly, if I was McNamara and wanted to stamp my authority, Hock is an easy target as everyone is agreeing already he has got what he deserved without knowing the crime. Risk free for McNamara who after all is roundly condemned by all and sundry as not having a clue. Not a bad way to divert attention away from himself.

Does the punishment actually fit the crime or was this a perfect opportunity for McNamara and his coaching team to divert widespread criticism away from themselves following the embarrassing loss to Italy?

An easy target scapegoat or a villain with form?

One down side for me really wanted to see Hock and Gallen fire into each other.

As someone else has said though when you have the option of moving one Burgess into the second row and maybe bringing in another Burgess on the bench it doesn't really weaken the team too much.

so he didn't show for training according to sky, cant blame anybody but him self for that.

So nobody still knows the reasons behind his dismissal from the camp, but people still slate him. England should have released a full statement confirming what these "serious breaches" are. I dont believe for a second that missing training constitutes a serious breach and warrants immediate explusion from the squad. If he did miss training, why did he miss training, hopefully both parties will release statements to clarify the situation.

just can't help but read "Hock removed from squad for serious discipline breaches" and sigh and shake my head.

He has made a mess of his career and reputation through stupidity, and whatever he has done, I'd be staggered if it wasn't something brainless. I accept that we shouldn't judge without knowing the full story but, let's all be fair, does anyone think we will be saying "oh poor Gareth" this time next week?

Rather than seeing Hock as the destructive, intense second rower that he is, people imediately think "moron". His public image is the product of his own actions. When you see academy players getting released, who would kill to have Hock's talent, it's disgusting the way he consistently finds a way to wazz it up the wall.

It's just a shame.

One thing's for certain though, whether it was one player or all 24, it's something you'd never see the kangaroos do - that's why they're better than us

It's all very well people having a go at Hock, and to be fair, he's often deserved it in the past. I can't help but feel that there's a self-destructive quality about him that often happens with talent in whatever form. When I read last night that Hock had been sent home, and reading the lynch-mob reactions on VT and Twitter. Slightly strange as the same people were decrying his selection in the first place. I couldn't help thinking about Terry Newton and how he garnered the very same attitudes and reactions in a life that's very similar both on and off the field.

I'm going to refrain from passing too harsh a judgement even when the truth is fully known, as I can't help thinking about Terry Newton and hope the Sport and its fans don't have too short a memory when it comes to its 'bad boys'.

One thing I have noticed about the media reporting... when he was picked for the squad his club was listed as Widnes, now that he has been thrown out he is a Salford player

Terry Newton had his faults. Missing training was not one of them. If you read Radlinskis book he singles out Newton and Farrell as being two of the best trainers he has ever seen.

You miss my point.

The Kangaroos and Kiwis have done it many times previously in visits to these shores. Infact Aussie teams better than this one have done it.

The NRL has had a problem with alchohol related incidents almost weekly over the last three seasons. Have you been hiding under a rock?