| FORUMS > Salford Red Devils > Hodgson |
 |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Moderator | 7760 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: JobsForTheWives "Meli,Sau and Puletua are not classed as Overseas players because they are exempt under the Cotonou Agreement with the EU.'"
The latter two are still Non-fed though surely? |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 9554 |  |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jun 2005 | 19 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: JobsForTheWives "Meli,Sau and Puletua are not classed as Overseas players because they are exempt under the Cotonou Agreement with the EU.
Slightly different note..Jordan Davies is classed as a New Talent pool player and each club is allowed 2 of those.For the purpose of the salary cap his wage is calculated as zero for the first full year and 50% for the second full year.'"
meli sau and puletua dont count on overseas quota due to cotonou agreement (kolpak).
meli and puletua have exemptions from non fed trained quota due to being here when quota was introduced. Sau does not and will count as non fed trained. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 322 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| May 2013 | 12 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2017 | Apr 2017 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
If Sau holds a Samoan passport then he is also exempt under the revised Cotonou agreement.
Either way we have no worries with regards to our overseas quota.
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 393 |  |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Oct 2017 | Apr 2017 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: JobsForTheWives "If Sau holds a Samoan passport then he is also exempt under the revised Cotonou agreement.
Either way we have no worries with regards to our overseas quota.'"
Sau and Puletua are classed as Quota as they are both non fed trained, despite the Samoan Passport. Puletua arrived to play SL in 2009 so would count as Non Fed Trained
The quota no longer takes into account just Australian or NZ players, an example of this would be "Australian" Forward Anthony Lafrancchi, he holds and Italian Passport so would be classed a citizen of the EU but is included on our quota spots because he was trained under another federation other than European Super League/RFL.
Hope this clears the matter for you |
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Moderator | 7760 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2018 | Oct 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: JobsForTheWives "If Sau holds a Samoan passport then he is also exempt under the revised Cotonou agreement.
Either way we have no worries with regards to our overseas quota.'"
Yes, but isn't the "overseas quota" largely redundant these days, having been pretty much superceded by the "non-federation" quota which was introduced to stop clubs filling their teams with people with EU heritage or from countries with EU trade agreements? |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 393 | |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Oct 2017 | Apr 2017 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: Iain "Yes, but isn't the "overseas quota" largely redundant these days, having been pretty much superceded by the "non-federation" quota which was introduced to stop clubs filling their teams with people with EU heritage or from countries with EU trade agreements?'"
That's correct. Tony Puletua and Sau were trained by another Federation so will still count on your quota despite holding passports for a Kolpak country (Samoa).
So regardless of passport, as in my example I gave earlier with Anthony Lafrancchi, they still count as they were trained by another RL Federation.
The exemption only applies to players from Kolpak countries who were in Super League prior to the start of the 2008 Season |
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 199 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Dec 2010 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jul 2016 | Jan 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Somebody really does need to come out from the club & clarify if somebody has been given a special dispensation out of our new signings. There's no way around being non-fed trained. As has been said, a passport does not change where you grew up playing rugby. As it stands, it's an indisputable fact that we have more non fed trained players than were allowed under the current rules. Either dispensation has been given to somebody or we can't count!
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 322 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| May 2013 | 12 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2017 | Apr 2017 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: St_Cunningham_no9 "Sau and Puletua are classed as Quota as they are both non fed trained, despite the Samoan Passport. Puletua arrived to play SL in 2009 so would count as Non Fed Trained
The quota no longer takes into account just Australian or NZ players, an example of this would be "Australian" Forward Anthony Lafrancchi, he holds and Italian Passport so would be classed a citizen of the EU but is included on our quota spots because he was trained under another federation other than European Super League/RFL.
Hope this clears the matter for you'"
Wrong.
Lafrancchi wont qualify unless he has actually lived in Italy for 4 years and been a registered player in their RL federation and also have played a minimum number of games whilst there regardless of if he holds an Italian passport.
Exact wording from the RFL is...
that he is a National of a country which is a current Full or Associate Member of the RLEF and has been resident in that country for four years and is a bona fide registered Player who has played a minimum of five domestic league or cup games in a domestic competition in that Full or Associate Member’s country.
The requirements are less stringent as daft as it sounds for players coming from a Cotonou country.The EU Rules guaranteeing the free movement of workers apply to players from Cotonou countries and not Australia and NZ.Therefore the only other criteria they need to meet are..
he is entitled to be lawfully employed in England as a professional rugby league Player pursuant to a valid work permit and is a National of a country which is party to either an Association Agreement, Europe Agreement or the Cotonou Agreement with the EU;
A National as defined by the RFL is
For the avoidance of doubt a National is defined as a person who holds a current passport for an EU member state or a country party to an Association Agreement, Europe Agreement or the Cotonou Agreement as appropriate.
Therefore as long as Sau Meli and Puletua hold a Samoan Passport then they will be considered as National and under the terms of the Cotonou Agreement will not be classed as Overseas players. |
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 13180 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2013 | Dec 2013 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: JobsForTheWives "Wrong.
Lafrancchi wont qualify unless he has actually lived in Italy for 4 years and been a registered player in their RL federation and also have played a minimum number of games whilst there regardless of if he holds an Italian passport.
Exact wording from the RFL is...
that he is a National of a country which is a current Full or Associate Member of the RLEF and has been resident in that country for four years and is a bona fide registered Player who has played a minimum of five domestic league or cup games in a domestic competition in that Full or Associate Member’s country.
The requirements are less stringent as daft as it sounds for players coming from a Cotonou country.The EU Rules guaranteeing the free movement of workers apply to players from Cotonou countries and not Australia and NZ.Therefore the only other criteria they need to meet are..
he is entitled to be lawfully employed in England as a professional rugby league Player pursuant to a valid work permit and is a National of a country which is party to either an Association Agreement, Europe Agreement or the Cotonou Agreement with the EU;
A National as defined by the RFL is
For the avoidance of doubt a National is defined as a person who holds a current passport for an EU member state or a country party to an Association Agreement, Europe Agreement or the Cotonou Agreement as appropriate.
Therefore as long as Sau Meli and Puletua hold a Samoan Passport then they will be considered as National and under the terms of the Cotonou Agreement will not be classed as Overseas players.'"
Never mind Jobsforthewives do you want a Job for the Devils? Lol your knowledge is unbelievable. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 393 | |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Oct 2017 | Apr 2017 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: JobsForTheWives "Wrong.
Lafrancchi wont qualify unless he has actually lived in Italy for 4 years and been a registered player in their RL federation and also have played a minimum number of games whilst there regardless of if he holds an Italian passport.
Exact wording from the RFL is...
that he is a National of a country which is a current Full or Associate Member of the RLEF and has been resident in that country for four years and is a bona fide registered Player who has played a minimum of five domestic league or cup games in a domestic competition in that Full or Associate Member’s country.
The requirements are less stringent as daft as it sounds for players coming from a Cotonou country.The EU Rules guaranteeing the free movement of workers apply to players from Cotonou countries and not Australia and NZ.Therefore the only other criteria they need to meet are..
he is entitled to be lawfully employed in England as a professional rugby league Player pursuant to a valid work permit and is a National of a country which is party to either an Association Agreement, Europe Agreement or the Cotonou Agreement with the EU;
A National as defined by the RFL is
For the avoidance of doubt a National is defined as a person who holds a current passport for an EU member state or a country party to an Association Agreement, Europe Agreement or the Cotonou Agreement as appropriate.
Therefore as long as Sau Meli and Puletua hold a Samoan Passport then they will be considered as National and under the terms of the Cotonou Agreement will not be classed as Overseas players.'"
My point was though that Meli is exempt under RFL rules and that Sau and Puletua are not as they are "Non Federation" Trained players they count towards your "overseas" quota. The "non Fed" Trained rule meant that of your 25 Man squad 5 can be "non fed" Trained. The rest have to be Club Trained or Same Federation (ie RLEF). As Puletua arrived and Sau arriving after the exemption of Kolpac players (Meli) they count towards your "overseas" quota. Meli will not count on your quota as he was at Saints for the start of 2007 |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 3174 |  |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2016 | Nov 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
1st we had the Finance experts:-
Dr No-Cash
Then we had the border agency lawyers:-
Dr No-Visa
now we have the Kolpac- Cotonou specialists .
Dr Non-Fed
what did we do before Google ??
ec.europa.eu/europeaid/where/acp ... 012_en.pdf
now we can all be consultants |
|
1st we had the Finance experts:-
Dr No-Cash
Then we had the border agency lawyers:-
Dr No-Visa
now we have the Kolpac- Cotonou specialists .
Dr Non-Fed
what did we do before Google ??
ec.europa.eu/europeaid/where/acp ... 012_en.pdf
now we can all be consultants | |
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 1301 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Mar 2022 | Mar 2022 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Does it really matter?
The executives have shown that they know what they're doing.
We won't sign players unless a visa is nailed on.
We won't breach the salary cap.
We won't exceed the non fed limits.
These guys have it all under control.
Leave it to them and trust the management.
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 2488 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2005 | 19 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Aug 2014 | Aug 2014 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: Bonita Red "Does it really matter?
The executives have shown that they know what they're doing.
We won't sign players unless a visa is nailed on.
We won't breach the salary cap.
We won't exceed the non fed limits.
These guys have it all under control.
Leave it to them and trust the management.'"
I like the way most of your posts are posts telling other people to stop discussing things on an Internet forum. You used to tell us Wilky and co knew what they were doing so I think abit of scepticism/enquiry about what is going on is perfectly healthy. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 80 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2016 | Apr 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
double post
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 80 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2016 | Apr 2016 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote: MikeTommo "There's no way around being non-fed trained. As has been said, a passport does not change where you grew up playing rugby. As it stands, it's an indisputable fact that we have more non fed trained players than were allowed under the current rules. Either dispensation has been given to somebody or we can't count!'"
There might be a way round both the non- fed and the non club -trained requirements.
Bewareshadows on the VT quoted a section from the RFL site.
www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/rules/i ... section=B1
The first paragraph below seems to say the RFL can change the number of club trained players a club has to have ,if they want to.
The second seems to say they can classify players as club trained or as fed trained if they want to.
B1:14 Subject to the presumption that the Board would take into account the potential views of and impact on other Clubs within the same league or division, the Board shall be given the discretion to grant to a Club or Clubs an exemption or variance of the maximum and minimum in particular categories of the ‘Club Trained Player’ Rule where in the Board’s absolute discretion the circumstances justify such an exemption or variance. The burden of establishing such circumstances is strictly on the individual Club.
B1:15 The Board shall have the discretion to declare that a Player qualifies as a ‘Club Trained Player’ or a ‘Federation Trained Player’ notwithstanding that the player does not satisfy strictly the definition where in the Board’s absolute discretion the Board is satisfied that the player satisfies the spirit of the definition or considers that in view of the circumstances relevant to that case it is appropriate to declare that a Player qualifies as a ‘Club Trained Player’ or a ‘Federation Trained Player’ and in particular shall take into account in relation to ‘Federation Trained Player’ any time registered with a Member Club of a member organisation of the relevant Federation, and in relation to ‘Club Trained Player’ time registered on loan with a Member Club of the relevant Federation or a Member Club of a member organisation of the relevant Federation. The burden of establishing such circumstances is strictly on the individual player. |
|
Quote: MikeTommo "There's no way around being non-fed trained. As has been said, a passport does not change where you grew up playing rugby. As it stands, it's an indisputable fact that we have more non fed trained players than were allowed under the current rules. Either dispensation has been given to somebody or we can't count!'"
There might be a way round both the non- fed and the non club -trained requirements.
Bewareshadows on the VT quoted a section from the RFL site.
www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/rules/i ... section=B1
The first paragraph below seems to say the RFL can change the number of club trained players a club has to have ,if they want to.
The second seems to say they can classify players as club trained or as fed trained if they want to.
B1:14 Subject to the presumption that the Board would take into account the potential views of and impact on other Clubs within the same league or division, the Board shall be given the discretion to grant to a Club or Clubs an exemption or variance of the maximum and minimum in particular categories of the ‘Club Trained Player’ Rule where in the Board’s absolute discretion the circumstances justify such an exemption or variance. The burden of establishing such circumstances is strictly on the individual Club.
B1:15 The Board shall have the discretion to declare that a Player qualifies as a ‘Club Trained Player’ or a ‘Federation Trained Player’ notwithstanding that the player does not satisfy strictly the definition where in the Board’s absolute discretion the Board is satisfied that the player satisfies the spirit of the definition or considers that in view of the circumstances relevant to that case it is appropriate to declare that a Player qualifies as a ‘Club Trained Player’ or a ‘Federation Trained Player’ and in particular shall take into account in relation to ‘Federation Trained Player’ any time registered with a Member Club of a member organisation of the relevant Federation, and in relation to ‘Club Trained Player’ time registered on loan with a Member Club of the relevant Federation or a Member Club of a member organisation of the relevant Federation. The burden of establishing such circumstances is strictly on the individual player. | |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
