Is this true though? There do seem to be people on here who [ithink[/i they could do better, but could they? What actual evidence is there that the club is badly run rather than being run on a shoestring budget? When you look, on the one hand, at the size of our crowds compared to other clubs, against, on the other hand, the fact that we have a new stadium (albeit not the one we hoped for) and a reasonable team, are we really that badly run?

So, for the people who think that way, what would you differently, and [ihow would you pay for it[/i?

It's a genuine question, so let's see if we can do it without some of the more excitable people on here having a tantrum.

So you're finally admitting that there are major problems behind the scenes at Salford RLFC, then?

Those problems are the reasons why many of us are worried about the impact Sale moving in will have with Salford. The fact that we got 10,000+ at the last game at the Willows shows the interest is there. It's not that long ago we were getting crowds of 6,000 at the Willows, so the interest is definitely there. The problems can be traced to the strange decision to give McRae a four and a half year contract (possibly only strange with hindsight, although the appointment didn't exactly set people's pulses racing at the time). A poor, dull brand of rugby, relegation and a severe drop in the standard of off-pitch management (which can be traced to Trish leaving the club) has resulted in a number of people walking away.

We all know that rugby league is a vastly superior product to union, however look at the coverage RU has both in this country and across the world. Mass marketing, the way in which the RFU has gone about business and countless other factors have meant that union is a global sport whilst league is still pretty parochial. To think that union followers will willingly watch one game of RL and then think "wow, this is superb, I'm definitely watching this" is clutching at straws. If that was the case, RL would have caught up with union a long time ago. Look at what's happened when London, playing under the Quins banner, had double headers with the RU side. The union game was on first and everyone left before the league game started. Conversely, the majority of league supporters were not in the ground to watch the union game. No on has found a magic formula yet to market either code to the other and I seriously doubt Salford have the ability to change that.

With that in mind, if Salford's marketing carries on as it is, if the ticket prices stay as they are, if the no advanced tickets for members fiasco continues, if the car parking fiasco continues, if fiascos such as people buying East Stand season tickets and then being moved into the West Stand against their wishes continue and if we continue to rely purely on the new stadium factor and the amount of people crossing Barton Bridge then we will continue to attract a minimal amount of new supporters whilst slowly pushing away the old ones. If that does turn out to be the case, can you really see Sale being sympathetic to our plight?

We're in this mess because of our own mis-management. If we do not sort things out, some of which are basic things which can be easily corrected, then we will end up losing out to Sale on a huge scale but we will only have ourselves to blame.

I know that the Club is badly run in some areas. Web-based professionalism, online shopping, some areas of merchandising, to name a few. Although it's hard to gauge whether it's an over-reliance on certain individuals at the Club to do the job of a full team of people, or whether the people in the job are just not that good.

To a lesser degree things such as season ticketing and marketing have not been brilliant but yet again this might be down to shoestring budgets and an over-stretching of resources. Unless you are privvy to the goings-on in these areas we just don't know.

On the other hand, we seem to have financially savvy individuals running the finances. We work within our means, unlike some other Clubs, which is no mean feat considering how little money we must have to play with. The fact that the Club is around at all, let alone performing admirably in the top flight, with an apathetic population to draw from the Club must be doing something right in this area.

For me, it's getting the little things right that people remember that Salford are pants at. It could be as simple as replying to an email or actually having a professionally run shop. I realise these things are hardly make or break, but for curious members of the public these areas are the ones they first come into contact with. If the Club appear to be disinterested or amateurish it's a massive turn-off for bringing in new people. The positioning of the new ground means that members of the public don't get the chance to just pass on by and check it out. This means their marketing has to improve. Once again, financial cost figures here and it's debatable whether the outlay will bring in anyone at all.

That's all I can think of for now, but I'm sure more will spring to mind as the day rolls on...

Go on then...

For a start, I've heard on the grapevine that Salford as a club are actually very unhappy with the stadium, the way in which things are being run and the deal we've ended up with. So I'm struggling to find any sort of comfort in that.

The team is doing as well as can currently be hoped and only an increase in budget could continue to push that forward. That is where I think most of us expected to be at and I think most of us would, looking at it objectively, be happy with that.

However there is a lot that can be done to boost attendances and the profile of the club. Without getting into ideas on what new measures could be introduced, how about some minor changes to existing procedures that could make a difference?

Ticket pricing. I've spoken to many people who would be interested in coming to a game, both as casual fans and supporters who've drifted away over the years. They've all said that £20 is too much for them to justify. Drop the price to £15 around the ground and I think more people would start to drift in to see what happens. If they like what they see, they'll start coming back.

Membership. The whole membership/season ticket package has been confusing and far more complex than it should have been. A simplified system, say a set advertised price for a ST which automatically makes you a member coupled with a competitively priced membership system giving discounts on match tickets is all that is needed. As nice as supporter packs, replica shirts and other extras are, I'm not sure they're really necessary and what is needed to attract people to hand their cash over in the first place?

Advanced tickets for members. Apparently, ticketline's system cannot handle members buying tickets in advance. This is ludicrious. I've heard the excuse that it's for "security", to prevent a member buying a cheap ticket in advance and passing it onto a non-member. Firstly, I'm not convinced that's the major problem it's being made out to be. You could also argue that a season ticket holder is able to pass their ticket onto someone else to gain free entry to a match if they themselves are unable to make it. I would have thought that would be a bigger problem as far as the club were concerned, but it doesn't seem to have caused as much of a fluster. Secondly, the way around it would be to use one of the following methods*Make a photo on each card compulsory. The card will then have to be presented at the turnstile as well as the paper ticket. The downside to this is that it could slow entry to the ground.

*A slight variation on the above theme. Instead of issuing paper tickets to members, load each ticket onto the card on match-by-match basis when purchased. This means that the membership card acts identically to a season ticket when a match day ticket has been bought by the member and is just scanned at the turnstile.

*Limit the purchase of a members' match day ticket to one per member. I would have thought this was already the case, but by the way in which the club are so wary of advanced sales suggests it isn't. When a members' ticket is bought, it can be registered on the system against that member and if they try to buy a second ticket for the same game they are prevented from doing so. That means only one person can benefit from the discounted price and the club has no possibility of losing out as they were expecting to sell one discounted ticket for the match anyway.

*Online ticket sales for members. I think the benefits for this, couple with some of the measures above, are self-explanatory.
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The online shop requires sorting. There are basic templates out there that even the smallest of businesses can use to get a shop up and running. It doesn't have to be flash and fanciful - just professional and functional.

Ensure all advertised email addresses are set-up to go to a specific computer and people know who's responsibility it is to check and answer them.

Have at least two members of staff on hand in the club shop, ensuring breaks can be taken without having to shut for an indefinite length of time. Even having a member of staff from another department covering for half an hour would make a huge difference if another wage would be a struggle.

Season ticket sales. I know two people who bought STs in the East Stand only to turn up for the Hull game and be shunted over to the West with no prior communication. Whilst this is unlikely to be a problem in the future now that we know the East Stand is not going to be open every week, it is something to learn from on basic good practice: STs should only have been sold in the South and West Stands in the first instance until the club knew whether or not there would be demand for the East Stand. If the stand had been kept open every week then people could then have had the opportunity to move across to there. As it stands, it was a basic error of judgment and breakdown of communication that left two long-standing supporters absolutely fuming at the way in which the club had handled the situation.

Again, that's just a few basic suggestions for now that shouldn't cost the club anything - the ticketing issues should be ticketline's problem to sort out and I would be very disappointed if we saw any kind of increase in costs due to these basic systems being implemented. Things like that would go a long way to helping the club out before you started looking at marketing plans, new investment and so on.

Many may be very unhappy with this news but the club has obviously been forced into this situation by the rugby league insisting on a new stadium to support Salford’s franchise application. Let’s be honest as much as some of us loved the Willows it did gave the club an impoverished image and it certainly wasn’t a platform to bigger and better things.

Personally I don’t think the build and operational costs associated with any new stadium today can justify only having only one team who play 13 times a year.

I feel that some comments on here are very defeatist and assume Salford will be threatened and weakened by Sale’s move to Barton. I think you have to ask the following questions:-

1. Will Salford fans stop watching league and watch union instead?

2. Will some Sale fans familiar with the stadium in the near future be tempted to watch some Superleague matches, especially in the summer during the union off-season?

3.Will the appeal of year round sports hospitality be of more interest to corporate sponsors and general rugby followers of both codes?

4. Does Barton with the potential to expand have the potential to establish itself as the rugby centre of the north-west in the future.

5. Could the new dual tenancy agreement and a modern stadium make a takeover more appealing to a wealthy new investor?

6. Will extra live union matches on TV promote the stadium and the city to millions more people and indirectly benefit Salford Reds with additional exposure?

7. Could both clubs share marketing ideas and initiatives? If a marketing idea works or fails both clubs could learn from each other.

8. Is it in the Stadium Management’s best financial interests for one or both clubs to fail?

9. Will the rugby football league stand back and let Salford fade into obscurity or will they be more supportive in protecting the image of the sport in it’s heartland region? If Salford fail the whole of rugby league fails.

I just think that some people have to look beyond their personal dislike for Union and their frustration that our support and finances isn't where we all want it to be. Who knows what is around the corner, this development could turn out to be the best thing to happen to our club in many years.

Yes, I mean, just look at what's happened to some of the other heartland clubs who've fallen on bad times over the years. The RFL have bent over backwards to keep many fallen giants at the top of the sport...

Of course it's true.... I think you'd find it hard to get somebody who would come on here bigging themselves up to be able to do the job better... I said that I know of people who could do a better job... It's not for me to say whether I could do it better... although... yes... I probably could.

I know DT comes on here and reads the comments... as Black Cat said... he wishes that this message board didn't exist... perhaps because he got found out by many of us years ago.

Remember... He's the guy who though Dare Devil Duck was a good idea... Why ? (and this was straight from the horses mouth)... because 'kids love ducks'.... Genius... ... That worked didn't it ?

So for those (DT included)... who think I'm being a little unfair here... DT is in a position where he's in the firing line. One thing he has got in his favour is a skin thicker that a bullet proof vest... and all the criticism will be water off a ducks back to him.

Most clubs have operated on a shoestring budget at some point... take Huddersfield... and perhaps even Hull... Look how they have done with the right leadership off the field. Huddersfield are a wonderful example to every club out there... do you see us doing what they did while the club is run as it is ? I don't..... Do you think if we were taken over by a big investor... somebody with clear business sense... they would keep the current staff at the club ? (with the exception of the McNally's)...Not a chance... they'd see right through it.

The point I was trying to make is a thriving Sale and a struggling Salford in the same stadium would reflect badly on Rugby League as a sport and it's board. I am sure Mr Lewis and Mr Wood will be taking a very keen interest in the future.

This isn't like a Harlequins situation where Union is established and rugby league is still considered an expansion area.

Huddersfield have had the financial backing of a very wealthy man in Ken Davy. You cannot compare Huddersfield and Salford because they are not in the same financial league.

I'm sure any new investor at Salford would make some administrative changes and additions. The thing is they would probably have the finances available to pay more money to get the results. You can only do your best with the resourses you have. I'd like to go on holiday for a couple of weeks and get some sun on my back but if I can't afford it then it ain't going to happen is it?

Point is.... look where they were... and where they are. Despite the wealthy investor... they still have to get the right people in to do the job. Doesn't matter how much money you throw at something... unless the infrastructure is right... it's not going to work.

I am sure with more money Salford could also recruit professional people and invest in taking the club forward commercially.

It really, really, really, really, really, really, really does.

It would be useful to compare the overall cost of running (pay, budgets and losses) of our off-field outfit with Huddersfields before forming opinions like this.
Sale's, we're told (I've no idea if it's true), costs millions and makes huge losses. Yet everyone on here keeps lauding them as the grand messiah's of effective marketing and something 'our lot' should learn from.

Professionalism and leadership cost nothing. Look at GT's post for a raft of ways the club could improve that wouldn't cost a penny.

I think you miss my point (my fault not yours)... What I'm saying is... should there be a wealthy investor come in at Salford... if they came in with the current set up at the club, it wouldn't work. They would have to get the whole club from top to bottom right before their money would make the difference. If I through a ton of polish at a turd... and spend all the money doing it... it's still going to be a turd... I don't think it would have mattered how much money we had... You are right....Money does make a difference to a club I totally agree... but so do people.