What about about the dropped balls from kicks of any sort which come in? Defence isn't all about tackling when playing fullback its also about defusing the danger from kicks, which 7 times out of 10 he doesn't do.

And as for your second point, where has anyone on this thread said any different?

Defence is a big part of RL in the modern game, I personally think that the one position that defence has actually declined with regards to importance is Fullback. It's just not as important as it used to be. Granted, in an ideal world fullbacks would be both defensive powerhouses and attacking geniuses, but it rarely happens like that in the real world. High kicks are fielded 90% of the time by wingers and centres. Fullbacks are like extra second rows or centres coming into the line. Their roles have changed from being predominantly defensive in nature to being almost exclusively an attacking player.

Patten has 15 assists. That's 60 points not counting conversions in a side where every point counts. Currently 9th out of the top 10 in assists in the whole SL. I would suggest his contribution outweighs the negatives

I know I'll sound like I think he's Neil Baker or something (which clearly I don't BTW) but just to add to his defence, it's easy to pick out the full back for mistakes as I've said before, but let's look at one of our other golden balls players, say Stef for instance , quality player on his day but compare his stats to PattenPatten - 15
Ratchford - 10

MetersPatten - 1873
Ratchford - 1230

OffloadsPatten - 24
Ratchford - 14

Tackle BustsPatten - 15
Ratchford - 10

Clean BreaksRatchford - 11

Missed TacklesPatten - 33
Ratchford - 42

ErrorsPatten - 21
Ratchford - 24

PenaltiesPatten - 4
Ratchford - 14

Not having a dig at Stef (although he has made the second most errors for us and given away the penalties - think of that next time you say "bloody Jewitt again" ) the point I am making is, as I've said above it much easier to to pick up on what a full back does wrong than most other positions.

Well spotted king of the shed,some very interesting reading there,like i mentioned above i think the general might have under estimated the quality of super league and perhaps/hopefully next season we might see a change in his style of play having had time to adapt to our game.I remember a certain matt king had a stinker of a season in his first year in super league! now look what he has achieved in the past 2 seasons !!

Come on now: have a think about this. How many times in the modern game does a one on one with the FB happen? Very few. Attacking kickers rarely put a high bomb to the central in goal area and prefer to put the wide defenders under pressure from their own attacking wingers.

The fact of the matter is that Brett Hodgson (for example) appears to have a lot more time to collect and run the ball back because he's playing behind a very very good defence, whereas some of our defence this season has been absolutely woeful: last week's game at Hull FC being just one of those examples. I agree with one of the previous posters who stated that you could put Billy Slater at FB in the current Reds team and he would probably look pretty ordinary.

I think Patten is pure class and I think we'll probably see a lot more from him in the future.

P.S. I have been known to be wrong before though.

If the players ahead of him were stoping them get within 30 meters of our goal posts then the bomb wouldn't be an option, they'd be forced to be hitting the ball 50-60 meters into or corners giving him more time to think, if you look at Hull KR they have fast line speed stoping teams getting yards to give Shaun Briscoe time to sprint the ball up field, that was the difference between us and Castleford 4 weeks back.

I tend to agree with the recent posts; it's our general defence that is letting us down. We need more line speed and solid defending. MP I'm sure will be working on this amongst other things. Keep the faith. I say the Salford Reds are rising.

Your not allowed a different opinion than anyone who is connected to forever reds

I agree. Seem to remember Patten being pretty solid under kicks earlier in the season. A couple of cocks ups at Wire and at home vs Quins and he is suddenly an awful defensive player? Not for me.

Not quite true though Karl he's made massive errors all season long and could have prevented many of the try's we have conceded, just go through all our games this year starting with Crusaders at MM and count how many 4 pointers should have been prevented by him.

Right this sounds like I've got it in for and I've not honest! He's miles better than fitzy and IMO the second best attacking fullback in the league behind Hodgson, but as I've already said I just don't think his defensive weaknesses can be brushed to one side just because of his attacking ability.

Anyway I'm leaving it at that now. See you all Sunday or the same 50 of us that always make the trip to Hull KR anyway!